synonyms: Difference between revisions
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''In popular literary acceptation, and as employed in special dictionaries of such words, synonyms are words sufficiently alike in general signification to be liable to be confounded, but yet so different in special definition as to require to be distinguished.'' --G. P. Marsh. | |||
---- | |||
It would be nice to provide each of the gismu clusters below with an advice on good usage | |||
* | |||
---- | |||
'''se papri | cukta | se tcidu | datni''' | |||
[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/9717 recent proposal] by [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick Nicholas]]: ''se papri < cukta < se tcidu < datni'' | |||
The proposal is retracted, but the fine semantics of these gismu is obviously something that should be made explicit ''(and probably has been :-( : [http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9402/msg00081.html])'' | |||
*Is a blank notebook a ''cukta'', a ''se tcidu'' or a ''datni''? | |||
*Is a pictures only book a ''se tcidu'' or a ''datni''? | |||
*Is a text of random words a ''datni''? | |||
---- | |||
'''klama | muvdu | litru''' | |||
''klama'' has all the places of ''muvdu'' plus x5 for vehicle, hence ''klama < muvdu''. | |||
''litru'' lacks places for destination and origin, hence ''klama < litru'' '''surely this should be the other way around? mi'e filip.''' | |||
---- | |||
'''nelci | se pluka | prami| se dirba''' | |||
''prami'' differs from others in greater degree of emotional attachment. By the way, is there any difference between ''prami'' and ''se dirba''? | |||
''se pluka'', compared to ''nelci'', has the place x3 'under conditions'. is there any reasonable way to make it work? | |||
*there is also ''melbi'' which is similar to ''pluka''. We need to do more thorough work on this cluster --najrut | |||
---- | |||
'''drata | frica''' | |||
roda rode zo'u le du'u da de frica cu nibli le du'u da de drata | |||
ijeku'i le du'u da de drata na nibli le du'u da de frica | |||
i mu'a ''lo djacu dirgo na frica lo drata'' | |||
''drata'' = 'another' (not the same one), opposite to ''mintu'' | |||
''frica'' = 'different' (not of the same kind), opposite to ''dunli'' | |||
see [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1954 | |||
---- | |||
'''mintu] | dunli''' | |||
''mintu'' = same, identical, opposite to ''drata'' | |||
''dunli'' = of the same kind, opposite to ''frica'' | |||
---- | |||
'''pikta | jaspu''' | |||
Are the following ''pikta'' or ''jaspu'' (or neither): | |||
* foreign passport | |||
* driver's licence | |||
* a university's diploma | |||
* marriage certificate | |||
* credit card | |||
* ''other borderline examples?'' | |||
---- | |||
'''molki | fanri''' | |||
The gismu definition list says: '''molki'', unlike ''fanri'', need not produce a product'. However, even the prototypical grain mill for ''molki'' can be argued to produce flour from grain. Maybe ''molki'' puts more stress on processing/treatment rather than producing something radically different. But where does the border lie? | |||
Are the following ''molki'' or ''fanri'' (or neither): | |||
* grain mill | |||
* foundry | |||
* oil station | |||
* hairdresser's saloon | |||
* tattoo studio | |||
* tailor's workshop | |||
* ''other borderline examples?'' | |||
---- | |||
botpi = se gacri | |||
---- | |||
=== Some general gismu are needless as they can be replaced with other gismu or lujvo. Which will simplify the language and it's learning. === | |||
** xe klama > marce | |||
** pluta > ve klama | |||
** nixli > fetyve'a | |||
** nakla > nakyve'a | |||
** mensi > fetytunba | |||
** bruna > naktunba | |||
** ninmu > fetre'a | |||
** nanmu > nakre'a | |||
** tixnu > fetpanzi | |||
** bersa > nakpanzi | |||
** mamta > fetrirni (logical but really not smart replacement). See also [http://www.lojban.org/publications/draft-textbook/lesson13 esson] for an explanation of the difference between fetsi rorci, se jbena and fetsi rirni. | |||
** patfu > nakrirni (logical but really not smart replacement) --najrut | |||
=== Other === | |||
cilre tadni ctuca | |||
bacru tavla casnu cusku skicu | |||
cpacu lebna te dunda=terdu'a | |||
frati spuda | |||
notci pinka xatra | |||
zgana catlu viska | |||
karce marce carce | |||
gasnu rinka bapli zukte | |||
mokca jipno | |||
flecu rirxe | |||
djuno krici fatci | |||
krefu rapli | |||
mukti krinu nibli rinka | |||
simla simsu '''should this be ''simlu simsa''? mi'e filip''' | |||
sanmi cidja se citka | |||
dertu terdi gugde tutra tumla | |||
tricu mudri | |||
pagbu spisa | |||
palta palne | |||
sraku guska katna | |||
grasu matne | |||
ganse sanji | |||
ratni kantu selci | |||
jdari tinsa sligu ranti ralci | |||
parbi frinu | |||
cenba galfi stika | |||
curve jinsa | |||
tabno kolme | |||
bancu ragve sepli (se ragve=te sepli?) | |||
ckana matci kicne | |||
dargu klaji | |||
zbasu finti | |||
xamgu zabna | |||
xlali palci ?mabla | |||
zbepi tsina ?matci ?ckana | |||
cabra minji tutci | |||
jivbu nivji | |||
burna cfipu ?xanka ?badri | |||
badri dunku | |||
xanka burna | |||
manci spaji jenca | |||
fanza raktu cfipu ?xanka | |||
rigni xebni | |||
cnano fadni kampu | |||
bandu snura | |||
bebna fenki cizra | |||
nupre kajde | |||
stidi friti | |||
kucli | se cinri | |||
xajmi zdile | |||
zungi xenru | |||
pikci cpedu | |||
vecnu ve jdima = veldi'a | |||
pruce te cupra = terpra | |||
damba jamna | |||
turni | se tutra | |||
xabju | se zdani | |||
ckini srana |
Revision as of 17:14, 4 November 2013
In popular literary acceptation, and as employed in special dictionaries of such words, synonyms are words sufficiently alike in general signification to be liable to be confounded, but yet so different in special definition as to require to be distinguished. --G. P. Marsh.
It would be nice to provide each of the gismu clusters below with an advice on good usage
se papri | cukta | se tcidu | datni
recent proposal by Nick Nicholas: se papri < cukta < se tcidu < datni
The proposal is retracted, but the fine semantics of these gismu is obviously something that should be made explicit (and probably has been :-( : [1])
- Is a blank notebook a cukta, a se tcidu or a datni?
- Is a pictures only book a se tcidu or a datni?
- Is a text of random words a datni?
klama | muvdu | litru
klama has all the places of muvdu plus x5 for vehicle, hence klama < muvdu.
litru lacks places for destination and origin, hence klama < litru surely this should be the other way around? mi'e filip.
nelci | se pluka | prami| se dirba
prami differs from others in greater degree of emotional attachment. By the way, is there any difference between prami and se dirba?
se pluka, compared to nelci, has the place x3 'under conditions'. is there any reasonable way to make it work?
- there is also melbi which is similar to pluka. We need to do more thorough work on this cluster --najrut
drata | frica
roda rode zo'u le du'u da de frica cu nibli le du'u da de drata
ijeku'i le du'u da de drata na nibli le du'u da de frica
i mu'a lo djacu dirgo na frica lo drata
drata = 'another' (not the same one), opposite to mintu
frica = 'different' (not of the same kind), opposite to dunli
see [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1954
mintu] | dunli
mintu = same, identical, opposite to drata
dunli = of the same kind, opposite to frica
pikta | jaspu
Are the following pikta or jaspu (or neither):
- foreign passport
- driver's licence
- a university's diploma
- marriage certificate
- credit card
- other borderline examples?
molki | fanri
The gismu definition list says: 'molki, unlike fanri, need not produce a product'. However, even the prototypical grain mill for molki can be argued to produce flour from grain. Maybe molki puts more stress on processing/treatment rather than producing something radically different. But where does the border lie?
Are the following molki or fanri (or neither):
- grain mill
- foundry
- oil station
- hairdresser's saloon
- tattoo studio
- tailor's workshop
- other borderline examples?
botpi = se gacri
Some general gismu are needless as they can be replaced with other gismu or lujvo. Which will simplify the language and it's learning.
- xe klama > marce
- pluta > ve klama
- nixli > fetyve'a
- nakla > nakyve'a
- mensi > fetytunba
- bruna > naktunba
- ninmu > fetre'a
- nanmu > nakre'a
- tixnu > fetpanzi
- bersa > nakpanzi
- mamta > fetrirni (logical but really not smart replacement). See also esson for an explanation of the difference between fetsi rorci, se jbena and fetsi rirni.
- patfu > nakrirni (logical but really not smart replacement) --najrut
Other
cilre tadni ctuca
bacru tavla casnu cusku skicu
cpacu lebna te dunda=terdu'a
frati spuda
notci pinka xatra
zgana catlu viska
karce marce carce
gasnu rinka bapli zukte
mokca jipno
flecu rirxe
djuno krici fatci
krefu rapli
mukti krinu nibli rinka
simla simsu should this be simlu simsa? mi'e filip
sanmi cidja se citka
dertu terdi gugde tutra tumla
tricu mudri
pagbu spisa
palta palne
sraku guska katna
grasu matne
ganse sanji
ratni kantu selci
jdari tinsa sligu ranti ralci
parbi frinu
cenba galfi stika
curve jinsa
tabno kolme
bancu ragve sepli (se ragve=te sepli?)
ckana matci kicne
dargu klaji
zbasu finti
xamgu zabna
xlali palci ?mabla
zbepi tsina ?matci ?ckana
cabra minji tutci
jivbu nivji
burna cfipu ?xanka ?badri
badri dunku
xanka burna
manci spaji jenca
fanza raktu cfipu ?xanka
rigni xebni
cnano fadni kampu
bandu snura
bebna fenki cizra
nupre kajde
stidi friti
kucli | se cinri
xajmi zdile
zungi xenru
pikci cpedu
vecnu ve jdima = veldi'a
pruce te cupra = terpra
damba jamna
turni | se tutra
xabju | se zdani
ckini srana