discussion of kacma fi noda

See also camera obscura.

• phma:
  • That should be kacma fi zi'o; anything (such as a tree) which has nothing to record images on kacma fi noda.
    • jezrax:
      • kacma fi zi'o is good (I almost chose it); it means something like camera for which any recording medium is irrelevant, which is true for a camera obscura. kacma fi noda means something like camera which does not record on any medium, which I think is also good. I don't accept that lo'e tricu cu kacma fi noda. A gismu is not defined by its places only, but by its entire definition. Both kacma fi zi'o and kacma fi noda rely on the listener accepting that a camera obscura is just like a familiar photographic kacma except for an unusual treatment of the x3 place; I think both suggested unusual treatments work.
    • phma is right. A kacma be fi noda is not lo kacma, just as a dunda be noda is not lo dunda. So it doesn't make much sense to insist that a kacma be fi noda should still be something we consider a camera.
      • jezrax:
        • Reference, please.
          • xorxes:
            • Do you accept lo'e tricu na kacma fi da? It means exactly the same as lo'e tricu cu kacma fi noda.
              • la xod:
                • What you choose to consider a "camera" is your own problem. pe'i la jezrax cu prije jimpe
                  • xorxes:
                    • Of course. When I say lo'e tricu cu kamca fi noda, I'm saying that a tree is not a camera.
    • phma:
      • Another way to say it is kacma fi lo nomei, which means that it is a camera but its recording medium is nothing. A camera with film kacma fi zi'o gi'enai kacma fi lo nomei.
        • xorxes:
          • Right. It is important to keep the meanings of noda and lo nomei appart. They're two significantly different "nothings".