BPFK Section: Contact Spatial: Difference between revisions

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{{BPFK Section from tiki|BPFK Section: Contact Spatial|34}}
== Survey of Prior Discussions ==


{CODE(wrap="1]][[jbocre: 10:22|10:22]] <vensa> ma jdima lonu curmi doi tomoj
* '''bu'u'''
[[jbocre: 10:22|10:22]] <tomoj> is there a vague PA
** [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg19140.html Help!! learning Lojban] - mailing list thread, 2001
[[jbocre: 10:22|10:22]] <selckiku> i don't mind "malgli", that's a fine way to say it, it just makes me wonder
** [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg05164.html zi, vi, ca, bu'u] - mailing list thread, 2003
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <vensa> selckiku: the bomb is about to go off :)
* '''ne'a'''
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <vensa> tomoj: ji'i
** [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg17587.html Re: A set of questions] - mailing list thread, 2001
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <selckiku> huh, a vague pa, that's a cool idea, there isn't is there??
** [http://www.lojban.org/tiki//tiki-view_forum_thread.php?topics_offset=1&forumId=1&comments_parentId=1656 Discussion] regarding [[BPFK Section: Distance]]
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <vensa> ji'i
* '''ne'i'''
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <tomoj> hmm
** [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=go%20outside&preview=2 go outside] - Wiki, 2001
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <tomoj> the thing is, I don't even know the number
** [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg02303.html Reverse of ne'i?] - mailing list thread, 2002
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <tomoj> nor whether it's typical
 
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <vensa> you can use {za'u}
It seems that in many cases where '''pa'o''' is used, '''mo'i pa'o''' would be more accurate. Is this a misinterpretation on my part, or should this use be explicitly invalidated?
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <tomoj> I just know it's in the hundreds
* When the event already contains "movement" (some vector) by virtue of its selbri, then '''mo'i pa'o''' is more often wrong than correct. '''mo'i''' in general is usually wrong. --[[selpa'i]]
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <vensa> or {su'o}
 
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <selckiku> "ji'i" makes any PA a little vaguer, you can't use it on its own can you?
== Proposed Definitions And Examples ==
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <vensa> so {za'u panono}
 
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <tomoj> so I was thinking "XX no no"
{{BPFK Section box open}}
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <vensa> selckiku: y not?
=== cmavo: bu'u (FAhA3) ===
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <selckiku> i dunno, i'd just never seen it
==== Proposed Definition ====
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <tomoj> well..
Coincident with. Indicates where the event is located. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates that which the event is coincident with, or in the same place as. The space equivalent of {ca}.
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <selckiku> what selma'o is zo ji'i anyway
 
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <selckiku> zo ji'i cmavo ma
==== Proposed Tag ====
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <tomoj> 10000 is {za'u pa no no}, isn't it?
fi'o se zvati
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <tomoj> valsi: ji'i
 
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <valsi> ji'i = digit/number: approximately (default the typical value in this context) (number).
====See Also ====
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <vensa> tomoj: you can try {xo paunai no no}
* {zvati}
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <tomoj> it's PA
* {vi}
[[jbocre: 10:25|10:25]] <selckiku> ok then, i guess {li ji'i} is a pretty vague number then
* {va}
[[jbocre: 10:26|10:26]] <vensa> selckiku: is {za'u panono} = "more than one hunderd" or "10000"?
* {vu}
[[jbocre: 10:26|10:26]] <vensa> valsi za'u
* {ne'i}
[[jbocre: 10:26|10:26]] <valsi> za'u = digit/number: greater than.
* {ca}
[[jbocre: 10:26|10:26]] <selckiku> 10000 is more than 100, sure
 
[[jbocre: 10:27|10:27]] <vensa> yeah but what is the meaning of the lojban?
==== Proposed Keywords ====
[[jbocre: 10:27|10:27]] <vensa> oh wait
* coincident
[[jbocre: 10:27|10:27]] <vensa> nm.
* coinciding
[[jbocre: 10:27|10:27]] <vensa> tomoj wasnt arguing with me
* at
[[jbocre: 10:27|10:27]] == bortzmeyer [[jbocre: ~bortzmeye@batilda.nic.fr|~bortzmeye@batilda.nic.fr]] has quit [[jbocre: Ping timeout: 252 seconds|Ping timeout: 252 seconds]]
 
[[jbocre: 10:27|10:27]] <vensa> I was including "10000" as a referent of {za'u panono}
==== Usage Examples ====
[[jbocre: 10:27|10:27]] <selckiku> it's a somewhat unusual meaning of za'upanono but it depends on the context
;''cizra fa le nu la jimbraun mrobi'o bu'u le mi gugde'':It is strange that Jim Brown died in my country.
[[jbocre: 10:28|10:28]] <tomoj> I want X00 where X is a single digit 1-9
 
[[jbocre: 10:28|10:28]] <vensa> doi tomoj no'i xu do kakne lonu se pendo lo mlatu poi bartu
;''i mi pu surla ze'a loi djedi bu'u le nurma'':I was relaxing for some days in the countryside.
[[jbocre: 10:28|10:28]] <vensa> tomoj: then you need a regex :P
{{BPFK Section box close}}
[[jbocre: 10:28|10:28]]  * ctino is going to try connecting with a real IRC client and will return soon
 
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <vensa> yay! citno
{{BPFK Section box open}}
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <vensa> *Ctino
=== cmavo: ne'a (FAhA3) ===
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] == ctino [[jbocre: 1806f0d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.6.240.210|1806f0d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.6.240.210]] has quit [[jbocre: | ]]
 
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <tomoj> hmm, is there enough cmavo space open to translate regex into lojban? :)
==== Proposed Definition ====
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <vensa> hah
Indicates that the event is near a certain point. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates the point the event is near or close to or in the vicinity of.  
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <vensa> valsi bo'o
 
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <valsi> boxfo = x1 is a sheet/foil/blanket [[jbocre: 2-dimensional shape/form flexible in 3 dimensions|2-dimensional shape/form flexible in 3 dimensions]] of material x2.
==== Proposed Tag ====
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <vensa> valsi no'o
fi'o se zvajbi
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <valsi> no'o = digit/number: typical/average value.
 
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <selckiku> the cmavo space is rather busy, really
==== See Also ====
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] == donri [[jbocre: ~dag@unaffiliated/dagodenhall|~dag@unaffiliated/dagodenhall]] has joined #lojban
* {zvajbi}
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] == gunkamanti [[jbocre: ~sarefo@213.83.32.130|~sarefo@213.83.32.130]] has joined #lojban
 
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <vensa> how about {no'o no no}?
==== Proposed Keywords ====
[[jbocre: 10:30|10:30]] <vensa> if anything, it sounds hillarious{CODE}
*near
*close to
*in the vicinity of
 
==== Usage Examples ====
;lo verba cu zutse ne'a lo canko gi'e catlu lo cipni:''The children are sitting next to the window and watching birds.''
{{BPFK Section box close}}
 
{{BPFK Section box open}}
=== cmavo: ne'i (FAhA3) ===
==== Proposed Definition ====
Indicates that the event is inside something. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates what the event is inside of.
 
==== Proposed Tag ====
fi'o se nenri
 
==== See Also ====
* {nenri}
 
==== Proposed Keywords ====
* within
* inside
* in
 
==== Usage Examples ====
;''le cinki ne'i cpare le rinci tubnu'':Within, the insect climbed the gutter.
{{BPFK Section box close}}
 
{{BPFK Section box open}}
=== cmavo: pa'o (FAhA3) ===
==== Proposed Definition ====
Intersecting. Indicates that the event passes through a certain point or area. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates what the event passes through.
 
==== Proposed Tag ====
fi'o se pagre
 
==== See Also ====
* {pagre}
 
==== Proposed Keywords ====
* intersecting
* transverse
* transfixing
* passing through
 
==== Usage Examples ====
;''ni'o le prije ca lo cabvanci cu xruti lo purdi pe le mivyka'a gi'e lebna lo balre pa'o lo canko be lo kumfa gi'e ba bo lebna lo cifnu noi zvati lo ckana pe lo verba kumfa'':That same afternoon, the doctor returned to the vivisectionist's garden, purloined one of his razors through the dressing room window, and on a second trip, removed his baby from the nursery basinette.
*([http://www.lojban.org/tiki/le+saske+smani&bl The Scientific Ape by Robert Louis Stevenson, tr. Jorge Llambías])
 
 
;''i lo go'i pu se catra lo dikca be ri'a lo ratcu poi pu ba'o batci pa'o loi skori poi bevri lo dikca lo vo'a jirku'a'':It was killed by the electric charge caused by a rat that had bit through the cord that carried the electric charge to it.
*([http://laxmahispajispaji.blogspot.com/2006/03/lo-nuzba-zou-lo-ratcu-due-mei-cu-jai.html 2])
 
;''.i mi sutra joiku'i.o'a banli cadzu pa'o la'ele cravro noi tilju je jadycau'':I swiftly but grandly walked through The Front Door, Which Is Heavy And Plain.
*([http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/ckafybarja1 Ckafybarja, Nick Nicholas])
 
;''i lu ai mi noroi za'ure'u klama ba'e tu sei la alis ca le nu pluta sisku pa'o le ricmei cu cusku'':'At any rate I'll never go ''there'' again!' said Alice as she picked her way through the wood.
*([http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/alice/alice_7.html Alice])
{{BPFK Section box close}}
 
{{BPFK Section box open}}
=== cmavo: re'o (FAhA3) ===
==== Proposed Definition ====
Adjacent to. Indicates that the event is adjacent, touching or in contact with something. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates what the event is adjacent to, touching or contacting.
 
==== See Also ====
* {lamji}
* {te'e}
 
==== Proposed Tag ====
fi'o se lamji
 
==== Proposed Keywords ====
* adjacent
* abutting
 
==== Usage Examples ====
;''.i lo tanxe porsi cu muvdu re'o mi'':A succession of boxes moves adjacent to me.
{{BPFK Section box close}}
 
 
{{BPFK Section box open}}
=== cmavo: te'e (FAhA3) ===
==== Proposed Definition ====
Bordering. Indicates that the event is located at an edge, boundary or border. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates what the event is at an edge, boundary or border of.
 
==== See Also ====
* {koizva}
* {re'o}
 
==== Proposed Tag ====
fi'o se koizva
 
==== Proposed Keywords ====
* bordering
* edging
 
==== Usage Examples ====
;''mi pu zu ze'i mo'i te'e cadzu'':A long time ago in the past, I walked for a short time along the edge.
 
==== Notes ====
"into" is removed as a keyword from "ne'i" because "into" signifies motion.
 
== Impact ==
{{BPFK Section box close}}
 
 
== Poll ==
{{BPFK Section poll| {POLL(pollId=>40)}{POLL} }}
[[Category:BPFK Sections including selma'o FAhA|C]]

Latest revision as of 22:51, 3 April 2020

This page is imported from version 34 of the page BPFK Section: Contact Spatial from the lojban Tiki.

Survey of Prior Discussions

It seems that in many cases where pa'o is used, mo'i pa'o would be more accurate. Is this a misinterpretation on my part, or should this use be explicitly invalidated?

  • When the event already contains "movement" (some vector) by virtue of its selbri, then mo'i pa'o is more often wrong than correct. mo'i in general is usually wrong. --selpa'i

Proposed Definitions And Examples

cmavo: bu'u (FAhA3)

Proposed Definition

Coincident with. Indicates where the event is located. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates that which the event is coincident with, or in the same place as. The space equivalent of {ca}.

Proposed Tag

fi'o se zvati

See Also

  • {zvati}
  • {vi}
  • {va}
  • {vu}
  • {ne'i}
  • {ca}

Proposed Keywords

  • coincident
  • coinciding
  • at

Usage Examples

cizra fa le nu la jimbraun mrobi'o bu'u le mi gugde
It is strange that Jim Brown died in my country.
i mi pu surla ze'a loi djedi bu'u le nurma
I was relaxing for some days in the countryside.


cmavo: ne'a (FAhA3)

Proposed Definition

Indicates that the event is near a certain point. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates the point the event is near or close to or in the vicinity of.

Proposed Tag

fi'o se zvajbi

See Also

  • {zvajbi}

Proposed Keywords

  • near
  • close to
  • in the vicinity of

Usage Examples

lo verba cu zutse ne'a lo canko gi'e catlu lo cipni
The children are sitting next to the window and watching birds.


cmavo: ne'i (FAhA3)

Proposed Definition

Indicates that the event is inside something. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates what the event is inside of.

Proposed Tag

fi'o se nenri

See Also

  • {nenri}

Proposed Keywords

  • within
  • inside
  • in

Usage Examples

le cinki ne'i cpare le rinci tubnu
Within, the insect climbed the gutter.


cmavo: pa'o (FAhA3)

Proposed Definition

Intersecting. Indicates that the event passes through a certain point or area. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates what the event passes through.

Proposed Tag

fi'o se pagre

See Also

  • {pagre}

Proposed Keywords

  • intersecting
  • transverse
  • transfixing
  • passing through

Usage Examples

ni'o le prije ca lo cabvanci cu xruti lo purdi pe le mivyka'a gi'e lebna lo balre pa'o lo canko be lo kumfa gi'e ba bo lebna lo cifnu noi zvati lo ckana pe lo verba kumfa
That same afternoon, the doctor returned to the vivisectionist's garden, purloined one of his razors through the dressing room window, and on a second trip, removed his baby from the nursery basinette.


i lo go'i pu se catra lo dikca be ri'a lo ratcu poi pu ba'o batci pa'o loi skori poi bevri lo dikca lo vo'a jirku'a
It was killed by the electric charge caused by a rat that had bit through the cord that carried the electric charge to it.
.i mi sutra joiku'i.o'a banli cadzu pa'o la'ele cravro noi tilju je jadycau
I swiftly but grandly walked through The Front Door, Which Is Heavy And Plain.
i lu ai mi noroi za'ure'u klama ba'e tu sei la alis ca le nu pluta sisku pa'o le ricmei cu cusku
'At any rate I'll never go there again!' said Alice as she picked her way through the wood.


cmavo: re'o (FAhA3)

Proposed Definition

Adjacent to. Indicates that the event is adjacent, touching or in contact with something. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates what the event is adjacent to, touching or contacting.

See Also

  • {lamji}
  • {te'e}

Proposed Tag

fi'o se lamji

Proposed Keywords

  • adjacent
  • abutting

Usage Examples

.i lo tanxe porsi cu muvdu re'o mi
A succession of boxes moves adjacent to me.



cmavo: te'e (FAhA3)

Proposed Definition

Bordering. Indicates that the event is located at an edge, boundary or border. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates what the event is at an edge, boundary or border of.

See Also

  • {koizva}
  • {re'o}

Proposed Tag

fi'o se koizva

Proposed Keywords

  • bordering
  • edging

Usage Examples

mi pu zu ze'i mo'i te'e cadzu
A long time ago in the past, I walked for a short time along the edge.

Notes

"into" is removed as a keyword from "ne'i" because "into" signifies motion.

Impact

Poll

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