rant: e'o and e'u are not commands: Difference between revisions
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''e'o'' and ''e'u'' do not themselves turn a statement into a command, and should not even be used to "soften" a command (which implies that there is something harsh about ''ko''). | |||
''e'o'' conveys an emotion of pleading or urging. It is used correctly in ''e'osai ko sarji la lojban.'', where the "Support Lojban" part comes from the ''ko'' and not the ''e'o''. | |||
'' | ''e'u'' indicates that you are making a suggestion, and you don't necessarily expect the listener to follow it. There are some statements in English which are disguised as suggestions but are really commands. For example, ''e'u ko cliva'' translates as "I suggest you leave", but without any of the connotations that come with the English version. If you say this, you honestly believe that it would be beneficial to the listener's situation if he would leave. | ||
'' | An ''e'o'' or ''e'u'' without a ''ko'' does not imply one. ''e'o'' would simply convey the pleading tone of the statement, and could be combined with ''a'o'' to indicate a pleading hope. For example, say you're in the [[jbocre: la x|xagvar]] Casino, and you have just bet lots of ''rupnu'' on a certain number of the roulette wheel (which incidentally is numbered in duodecimal). You might say ''e'o a'o le xislu cu muvysti bu'u li 16'' - "Oh please, let the wheel stop on 16". You're not requesting that anyone there actually physically cause the wheel to stop there (that would be cheating, and would get you removed from the casino by a couple of thugs who only count in unary, conveyed not by ''pasu'i'' but by the number of times they punch you in the face). You are simply hoping and pleading that the wheel stops on 16. | ||
'' | ... Okay, so this didn't end up being much of a rant. But it is a [[BPFK Section: Opinionated Gripes ripe]], as I've seen far too much usage of both ''e'u <statement>'' intended to imply a command and ''e'u ko'' intending to counter some imagined harshness in ''ko''. The worst offender is the "[http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less3soften.html oftening the blow...]" chapter in the Lessons, of course. | ||
[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]] | |||
''Though in [[jbocre: la xagvar|la xagvar]] you might instead say'' li panonopanono ''or'' li pano ''or'' li pavo | |||
Those numbers don't seem to be doz 16/dec 18/hex 12 in any bases I know. But don't let the numbers detract from the point. | |||
It's Fibonacci, Hex, Duodecimal, in that order. ''panopanonono, pare, and paxa, then - the 16 was in duodecimal.'' | |||
Revision as of 17:09, 4 November 2013
e'o and e'u do not themselves turn a statement into a command, and should not even be used to "soften" a command (which implies that there is something harsh about ko).
e'o conveys an emotion of pleading or urging. It is used correctly in e'osai ko sarji la lojban., where the "Support Lojban" part comes from the ko and not the e'o.
e'u indicates that you are making a suggestion, and you don't necessarily expect the listener to follow it. There are some statements in English which are disguised as suggestions but are really commands. For example, e'u ko cliva translates as "I suggest you leave", but without any of the connotations that come with the English version. If you say this, you honestly believe that it would be beneficial to the listener's situation if he would leave.
An e'o or e'u without a ko does not imply one. e'o would simply convey the pleading tone of the statement, and could be combined with a'o to indicate a pleading hope. For example, say you're in the xagvar Casino, and you have just bet lots of rupnu on a certain number of the roulette wheel (which incidentally is numbered in duodecimal). You might say e'o a'o le xislu cu muvysti bu'u li 16 - "Oh please, let the wheel stop on 16". You're not requesting that anyone there actually physically cause the wheel to stop there (that would be cheating, and would get you removed from the casino by a couple of thugs who only count in unary, conveyed not by pasu'i but by the number of times they punch you in the face). You are simply hoping and pleading that the wheel stops on 16.
... Okay, so this didn't end up being much of a rant. But it is a BPFK Section: Opinionated Gripes ripe, as I've seen far too much usage of both e'u <statement> intended to imply a command and e'u ko intending to counter some imagined harshness in ko. The worst offender is the "oftening the blow..." chapter in the Lessons, of course.
Though in la xagvar you might instead say li panonopanono or li pano or li pavo
Those numbers don't seem to be doz 16/dec 18/hex 12 in any bases I know. But don't let the numbers detract from the point.
It's Fibonacci, Hex, Duodecimal, in that order. panopanonono, pare, and paxa, then - the 16 was in duodecimal.