Pronunciation guide in Mandarin Chinese: Difference between revisions

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{|class='wikitable'
|-
|'''a'''
|mashang (ma3shang)
|-
|'''e'''
|fei (fei1)
|-
|'''i'''
|bingli (bing1li4)
|-
|'''o'''
|duo, wo (duo1, wo3)
|-
|'''u'''
|daolu, gongfu, guwu (dao4lu, gong1fu1, gu3wu4)
|-
|'''y'''
|shenme, wo lai le (shen2me5, wo3 lai2 le5)
|-
|'''ai'''
|lai, baicai (lai2, bai2cai4)
|-
|'''au'''
|lao, zaogao (lao3, zao1gao1)
|-
|'''ei'''
|Feizhou, Meiguo, Beijing
|-
|'''oi'''
|fat choy in Cantonese (fa3 cai4)
|-
|'''ia'''
|Yazhou, yazi, yangren (ya1zi, yang2ren2)
|-
|'''ie'''
|liefeng, miewang (lie4feng1, mie4wang2)
|-
|'''ii'''
|Yingguo", yi, yiwen (yi1, yi4wen2)
|-
|'''io'''
|pengyou, niurou (peng2you3, niu2rou4 -> "nyou !)
|-
|'''iu'''
|yonggong (yong4gong1)
|-
|'''ua'''
|bagua (ba1gua4)
|-
|'''ue'''
|wu + ye -> we
|-
|'''ui'''
|Pu-yi (don't pron. the "y"!)
|-
|'''uo'''
|Luoma (Rome)
|-
|'''uu'''
|wubi (wu2bi3)
|-
|'''b'''
|bubian, bingbao (bu2bian4, bing1bao2)
|-
|'''c'''
|shawei, shan shang (sha1wei3, shan1 shang)
|-
|'''d'''
|Datong, dongfang, dadao (dong1fang1, da3dao3)
|-
|'''f'''
|fengshui, "fei long wu feng" (feng1shui3)
|-
|'''g'''
|gaoliang, zaogao (gao1liang2, zao1gao1)
|-
|'''j'''
|-
|-
|'''k'''
|keren, kaikou (ke4ren2, kai1kou3)
|-
|'''l'''
|"Aolung" ;-), lunliu (long2, lun2liu2)
|-
|'''m'''
|mafan, mingmei (ma2fan4, ming2mei4)
|-
|'''n'''
|Nanning, nengli, nongren (neng2li4, nong2ren2)
|-
|'''p'''
|pinyin, heping (he2ping1)
|-
|'''r'''
|ren, rang, ertong (ren2, rang2, er2tong2)
|-
|'''s'''
|sanjiao, sangmenr, (san1jiao3, sang3menr2)
|-
|'''t'''
|Tang, tebie (te4bie2)
|-
|'''v'''
|-
|-
|'''x'''
|hen hao!  ;-)
|-
|'''z'''
|-
|-
|
|}


a m'''a'''sh'''a'''ng (ma3shang)
== Correspondencies according to la gleki ==
=== Mandarin phonology (IPA) ===
{|class=wikitable
|-
|
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labial_consonant Labial]
|([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denti-alveolar Denti-])[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_consonant Alveolar]
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroflex_consonant Retroflex]
|
|([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolo-palatal_consonant Alveolo]-)[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palatal_consonant Palatal]
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velar_consonant Velar]
|-
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_stop Nasal]
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilabial_nasal m]
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_nasal n̪]
|
|
|
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velar_nasal ŋ]
|-
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_consonant Stop]
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspiration_(phonetics) pʰ]  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_bilabial_stop p]
|t̪ʰ [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_stop t̪]
|
|
|
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspiration_(phonetics) kʰ]  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_stop k]
|-
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affricate_consonant Affricate]
|
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspiration_(phonetics) t͡sʰ]  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolar_affricate t͡s]
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspiration_(phonetics) ʈ͡ʂʰ]  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_retroflex_affricate ʈ͡ʂ]
|
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspiration_(phonetics) t͡ɕʰ]  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_affricate t͡ɕ]
|
|-
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fricative_consonant Fricative]
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_labiodental_fricative f]
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolar_sibilant s]
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_retroflex_sibilant ʂ]
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_retroflex_sibilant ʐ]~[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroflex_approximant ɻ]
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_sibilant ɕ]
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_fricative x]
|-
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approximant_consonant Approximant]
|
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_lateral_approximant l̪]
|
|
|([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palatal_approximant j])  ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labial-palatal_approximant ɥ])
|([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labio-velar_approximant w])
|}


e  f'''e'''i (fei1)
Lojbanic phonology
{|class=wikitable
|-
|
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labial_consonant Labial]
|([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denti-alveolar Denti-])[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_consonant Alveolar]
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroflex_consonant Retroflex]
|
|([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolo-palatal_consonant Alveolo]-)[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palatal_consonant Palatal]
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velar_consonant Velar]
|-
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_stop Nasal]
|m
|n, ni
|
|
|
|[ŋ]
|-
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_consonant Stop]
|p b
|t d
|
|
|
|k g
|-
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affricate_consonant Affricate]
|
|ts dz
|tc dj
|
|tsi dzi
|
|-
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fricative_consonant Fricative]
|f [v]
|s [z]
|c
|r j
|si
|x
|-
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approximant_consonant Approximant]
|
|l
|
|
|i ‘
|u
|}


i  b'''i'''ngl'''i''' (bing1li4)
<nowiki>[v] and [z] are present in Lojban but not in Mandarin.</nowiki>


o  du'''o''', w'''o''' (duo1, wo3)
Li'a vy fa'u zy na'e zasti sepa'u lo bancumunu ke sance ciste. I zo'oi ngy na'e zasti sepa'u lo jbobau ciste (to zo'oi ngy mintu ny toi).


u daol'''u''', g'''o'''ngf'''u''', g'''u'''w'''u''' (dao4lu, gong1fu1, gu3wu4)
== Discussion ==
*There is no "real" '''r'''-sound in Putonghua phonology nor a "real" '''j'''-sound (is there a "real" r-sound in English?!).
**There is the choice to represent Lojban '''r''' <u>or</u> '''j''' by the Chinese sound given as 'r' (in Pinyin) or 'j' (in W-G) respectively:
***'ri4' or 'jih4': "sun/day"
**The sound described by these conventions is pronounced somewhat between American 'r' (in 'are' - this English word sounding pretty close to pinyin 'èr' or W-G 'erh<sup>4</sup>'!) and French ''<u>g</u>énie'', maybe comparable to the 'r-j' mix in the Czech composer's surname ''Dvo<u>ř</u>ák'' but without the trill.
**.aulun.:
**:Maybe persuaded by the Pinyin convention, I usually hear this sound like American 'r', but - on my way across the whole country - I also would hear a native of Peking area pronounce his surname 'rén' as 'jen2' (W-G), i.e. much closer to the 'génie' initial. So what? I decided to take this Chinese (Putonghua) sound to represent Lojban 'r'.
**.[[braiyn|braiyn]].:
**:My Mandarin dictionary lists the pronunciation of Pinyin initial ''r'' as IPA "z-with-tail", which CLL explicitly lists as an allowed pronunciation of lojban '''j'''...
***[[.aulun.|.aulun.]]:
***:Yes, we're having the choice, as mentioned above. Yet, we only can take one to represent this phoneme, and i decided/proposed to take the 'r'.
**[[.aulun.|.aulun.]]:
**:There's a sound in Putonghua (represented by 'r' in pinyin) that - in my impression - seems to be closer to American 'r' than to Lojban '''j'''. But that is not the question, since the Chinese language is nontheless defective with regard to - at least - these two consonants: choose what you want to - and drop the other one respectively!


y  shenm'''e''', wo lai l'''e''' (shen2me5, wo3 lai2 le5)
== See also ==
 
*[[Pronunciation Guide Putonghua - with character code BIG5]]
ai  l'''ai''', b'''ai'''c'''ai''' (lai2, bai2cai4)
 
au  l'''ao''', z'''ao'''g'''ao''' (lao3, zao1gao1)
 
ei  F'''ei'''zhou, M'''ei'''guo, B'''ei'''jing
 
oi  fat ch'''oy''' in Cantonese (fa3 cai4)
 
ia  '''Ya'''zhou, '''ya'''zi, '''ya'''ngren (ya1zi, yang2ren2)
 
ie  l'''ie'''feng, m'''ie'''wang (lie4feng1, mie4wang2)
 
ii  '''Yi'''ngguo", '''yi''', '''yi'''wen (yi1, yi4wen2)
 
io  peng'''yo'''u, n'''iu'''rou (peng2you3, niu2rou4 -> "n'''yo'''u !)
 
iu  '''yo'''nggong (yong4gong1)
 
ua  bag'''ua''' (ba1gua4)
 
ue  '''w'''u + y'''e''' -> '''we'''
 
ui  P'''u-yi''' (don't pron. the "y"!)
 
uo  L'''uo'''ma (Rome)
 
uu  '''wu'''bi (wu2bi3)
 
b  '''b'''u'''b'''ian, '''b'''ing'''b'''ao (bu2bian4, bing1bao2)
 
c  '''sha'''wei, '''sh'''an '''sh'''ang (sha1wei3, shan1 shang)
 
d  '''D'''atong, '''d'''ongfang, '''d'''a'''d'''ao (dong1fang1, da3dao3)
 
f  '''f'''engshui, "'''f'''ei long wu '''f'''eng" (feng1shui3)
 
g  '''g'''aoliang, zao'''g'''ao (gao1liang2, zao1gao1)
 
j  -
 
k  '''k'''eren, '''k'''ai'''k'''ou (ke4ren2, kai1kou3)
 
l  "Ao'''l'''ung" ;-), '''l'''un'''l'''iu (long2, lun2liu2)
 
m  '''m'''afan, '''m'''ing'''m'''ei (ma2fan4, ming2mei4)
 
n  '''N'''a'''nn'''ing, '''n'''engli, '''n'''ongren (neng2li4, nong2ren2)
 
p  '''p'''inyin, he'''p'''ing (he2ping1)
 
r  '''r'''en, '''r'''ang, e'''r'''tong (ren2, rang2, er2tong2)
 
s  '''s'''anjiao, '''s'''angmenr, (san1jiao3, sang3menr2)
 
t  '''T'''ang, '''t'''ebie (te4bie2)
 
v  -
 
x  '''h'''en '''h'''ao!  ;-)
 
z  -
 
----
 
*If you give me the unicode codepoints for these, [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]] will ''try'' and include the Chinese characters. If any of the above are � rather than u, please indicate.
 
''Following the opinion mentioned by Nick and John (rather to give discernible contrasts than produce the character's exact Lojban value in the foreign language), which BTW I do share, I decided to also add an r-entry _or_ j-entry. Given that there is no "real" r-sound in Putonghua phonology nor a "real" j-sound (is there a "real" r-sound in English?!), we have the choice to represent Lojban R ''''or''' J by the Chinese sound given as 'r' (in Pinyin) or 'j' (in W-G) respectively ('r�' or 'jih4': "sun/day"). The sound described by these conventions is pronounced somewhat between American 'r' (in 'are' - this English word sounding pretty close to py '�r' or W-G 'erh4'!) and French ''''g'''�nie', maybe comparable to the r-j mix in the Czech composer's surname 'Dvo'''r'''�k' ('r' with 'hacek'!) - but without the trill! Maybe persuaded by the Pinyin convention, I usually hear this sound like American 'r', but - on my way across the whole country - I also would hear a native of Peking area pronounce his surname 'r�n' as 'jen2' (W-G), i.e. much closer to the 'g�nie' initial. So what? I decided to take this Chinese (Putonghua) sound to represent Lojban 'r'. --.aulun.''
 
*My Mandarin dictionary lists the pronunciation of Pinyin initial ''r'' as IPA z-with-tail, which CLL explicitly lists as an allowed pronunciation of lojban ''j''... --mi'e .[[braiyn|braiyn]].
*Yes, we're having the choice, as mentioned above, Yet, we only can take one to represent this phonem, and i decided/proposed to take the 'r'. --[[jbocre: .aulun.|.aulun.]]
 
**You're choosing to represent lojban 'r' with lojban 'j'? Well, to each his own... --[[braiyn|braiyn]]
**There's a sound in Putonghua (represented by 'r' in py) that - in my impression - seems to be closer to American 'r' than to Lojban {j}. But that is not the question, since the Chinese language is nontheless defective with regard to - at least - these two consonants: choose what you want to - and drop the other one repectively! --[[jbocre: .aulun.|.aulun.]]
 
[[jbocre: Pronunciation Guide Putonghua - with character code BIG5]]

Latest revision as of 17:02, 19 November 2018

a mashang (ma3shang)
e fei (fei1)
i bingli (bing1li4)
o duo, wo (duo1, wo3)
u daolu, gongfu, guwu (dao4lu, gong1fu1, gu3wu4)
y shenme, wo lai le (shen2me5, wo3 lai2 le5)
ai lai, baicai (lai2, bai2cai4)
au lao, zaogao (lao3, zao1gao1)
ei Feizhou, Meiguo, Beijing
oi fat choy in Cantonese (fa3 cai4)
ia Yazhou, yazi, yangren (ya1zi, yang2ren2)
ie liefeng, miewang (lie4feng1, mie4wang2)
ii Yingguo", yi, yiwen (yi1, yi4wen2)
io pengyou, niurou (peng2you3, niu2rou4 -> "nyou !)
iu yonggong (yong4gong1)
ua bagua (ba1gua4)
ue wu + ye -> we
ui Pu-yi (don't pron. the "y"!)
uo Luoma (Rome)
uu wubi (wu2bi3)
b bubian, bingbao (bu2bian4, bing1bao2)
c shawei, shan shang (sha1wei3, shan1 shang)
d Datong, dongfang, dadao (dong1fang1, da3dao3)
f fengshui, "fei long wu feng" (feng1shui3)
g gaoliang, zaogao (gao1liang2, zao1gao1)
j
k keren, kaikou (ke4ren2, kai1kou3)
l "Aolung" ;-), lunliu (long2, lun2liu2)
m mafan, mingmei (ma2fan4, ming2mei4)
n Nanning, nengli, nongren (neng2li4, nong2ren2)
p pinyin, heping (he2ping1)
r ren, rang, ertong (ren2, rang2, er2tong2)
s sanjiao, sangmenr, (san1jiao3, sang3menr2)
t Tang, tebie (te4bie2)
v
x hen hao!  ;-)
z

Correspondencies according to la gleki

Mandarin phonology (IPA)

Labial (Denti-)Alveolar Retroflex (Alveolo-)Palatal Velar
Nasal m n̪ ŋ
Stop pʰ p t̪ʰ t̪ kʰ k
Affricate t͡sʰ t͡s ʈ͡ʂʰ ʈ͡ʂ t͡ɕʰ t͡ɕ
Fricative f s ʂ ʐ~ɻ ɕ x
Approximant l̪ (j) (ɥ) (w)

Lojbanic phonology

Labial (Denti-)Alveolar Retroflex (Alveolo-)Palatal Velar
Nasal m n, ni [ŋ]
Stop p b t d k g
Affricate ts dz tc dj tsi dzi
Fricative f [v] s [z] c r j si x
Approximant l i ‘ u

[v] and [z] are present in Lojban but not in Mandarin.

Li'a vy fa'u zy na'e zasti sepa'u lo bancumunu ke sance ciste. I zo'oi ngy na'e zasti sepa'u lo jbobau ciste (to zo'oi ngy mintu ny toi).

Discussion

  • There is no "real" r-sound in Putonghua phonology nor a "real" j-sound (is there a "real" r-sound in English?!).
    • There is the choice to represent Lojban r or j by the Chinese sound given as 'r' (in Pinyin) or 'j' (in W-G) respectively:
      • 'ri4' or 'jih4': "sun/day"
    • The sound described by these conventions is pronounced somewhat between American 'r' (in 'are' - this English word sounding pretty close to pinyin 'èr' or W-G 'erh4'!) and French génie, maybe comparable to the 'r-j' mix in the Czech composer's surname Dvořák but without the trill.
    • .aulun.:
      Maybe persuaded by the Pinyin convention, I usually hear this sound like American 'r', but - on my way across the whole country - I also would hear a native of Peking area pronounce his surname 'rén' as 'jen2' (W-G), i.e. much closer to the 'génie' initial. So what? I decided to take this Chinese (Putonghua) sound to represent Lojban 'r'.
    • .braiyn.:
      My Mandarin dictionary lists the pronunciation of Pinyin initial r as IPA "z-with-tail", which CLL explicitly lists as an allowed pronunciation of lojban j...
      • .aulun.:
        Yes, we're having the choice, as mentioned above. Yet, we only can take one to represent this phoneme, and i decided/proposed to take the 'r'.
    • .aulun.:
      There's a sound in Putonghua (represented by 'r' in pinyin) that - in my impression - seems to be closer to American 'r' than to Lojban j. But that is not the question, since the Chinese language is nontheless defective with regard to - at least - these two consonants: choose what you want to - and drop the other one respectively!

See also

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