BPFK Section: The Problem With comma: Difference between revisions
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The CLL's comments on comma break audio-visual isomorphism. Chapter 3, section 3: | The CLL's comments on comma break audio-visual isomorphism. Chapter 3, section 3: | ||
:The comma is used to indicate a syllable break within a word, generally one that is not obvious to the reader. Such a comma is written to separate syllables, but indicates that there must be no pause between them, in contrast to the period. Between two vowels, a comma indicates that some type of glide may be necessary to avoid a pause that would split the two syllables into separate words. It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [[ | :The comma is used to indicate a syllable break within a word, generally one that is not obvious to the reader. Such a comma is written to separate syllables, but indicates that there must be no pause between them, in contrast to the period. Between two vowels, a comma indicates that some type of glide may be necessary to avoid a pause that would split the two syllables into separate words. It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [[h|h]]) sound in pronouncing a comma. However, a comma cannot be pronounced as a pause or glottal stop between the two letters separated by the comma, because that pronunciation would split the word into two words. | ||
:Otherwise, a comma is usually only used to clarify the presence of syllabic ``l'', ``m'', ``n'', or ``r'' (discussed later). Commas are never required: no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma. | :Otherwise, a comma is usually only used to clarify the presence of syllabic ``l'', ``m'', ``n'', or ``r'' (discussed later). Commas are never required: no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma. | ||
If this is true, then {.a,i} and {.ai} are the same word ("no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma") but {.a,i} can be pronounced like {.a'i} ("It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [[ | If this is true, then {.a,i} and {.ai} are the same word ("no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma") but {.a,i} can be pronounced like {.a'i} ("It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [[h|h]]) sound in pronouncing a comma"). | ||
Both of this things cannot be true unless we restrict where , can go. | Both of this things cannot be true unless we restrict where , can go. | ||
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--[[camgusmis]] | --[[camgusmis]] | ||
* My suggestion is to do away with either one or both of '''"no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma"''' and '''"It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [[ | * My suggestion is to do away with either one or both of '''"no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma"''' and '''"It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [[h|h]]) sound in pronouncing a comma"''', preferably the former, because in my mind "ah EE" {.a,i} is not the same as "I" {.ai}, but "ah EE" {.a,i} and "ahEE" {.a'i} are. --[[.aionys.]] | ||
My view is the opposite: that pronouncing , as ' is bogus and shouldn't be allowed. --[[cowan]] | My view is the opposite: that pronouncing , as ' is bogus and shouldn't be allowed. --[[cowan]] | ||
Revision as of 11:45, 23 March 2014
The CLL's comments on comma break audio-visual isomorphism. Chapter 3, section 3:
- The comma is used to indicate a syllable break within a word, generally one that is not obvious to the reader. Such a comma is written to separate syllables, but indicates that there must be no pause between them, in contrast to the period. Between two vowels, a comma indicates that some type of glide may be necessary to avoid a pause that would split the two syllables into separate words. It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA h) sound in pronouncing a comma. However, a comma cannot be pronounced as a pause or glottal stop between the two letters separated by the comma, because that pronunciation would split the word into two words.
- Otherwise, a comma is usually only used to clarify the presence of syllabic ``l, ``m, ``n, or ``r (discussed later). Commas are never required: no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma.
If this is true, then {.a,i} and {.ai} are the same word ("no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma") but {.a,i} can be pronounced like {.a'i} ("It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA h) sound in pronouncing a comma").
Both of this things cannot be true unless we restrict where , can go.
- My suggestion is to do away with either one or both of "no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma" and "It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA h) sound in pronouncing a comma", preferably the former, because in my mind "ah EE" {.a,i} is not the same as "I" {.ai}, but "ah EE" {.a,i} and "ahEE" {.a'i} are. --.aionys.
My view is the opposite: that pronouncing , as ' is bogus and shouldn't be allowed. --cowan
I prefer 's to ,s anyway, and it seems un-Lojbanically superfluous to have both characters with such similar usages. People can use them if they want, but I hope , doesn't become the standard. --Plastic Raven
CLL 3.9:
- A Lojban word has one syllable for each of its vowels, diphthongs, and syllabic consonants <...>
The word {ai} has one syllable with a diphthong in its core. Therefore it is illegal to insert comma in it. --tengo