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=== Chapter 4 Errata ===
Every time I go to a convention, there is usually an anime room. Sitting in there watching the otaku enjoy subtitled animation from Japan, I am impressed by how powerfully this medium spreads a foreign language through other cultures. I think back to the anime conventions I've visited and consider the classes on Japanese that they teach there! An entire subculture exists online, called "fansubbing", for amateur hobbyists to translate Japanese culture into English and other languages before it is officially released.


=== Completed ===
For another example, audiences hear Klingon spoken with subtitles in Star Trek, or Quenya spoken with subtitles in The Lord of the Rings, and are captivated by the setting that language creates. Not only could Lojban gain the speakers that it needs by using this effect, it's fun to create a film.


** Lingistic Issues *with* Lojban?  I think?  -Robin
Animation once required prohibitive amounts of time and money. But with the advent of machinima, that's no longer true, if you're willing to settle for relatively crude computer animation. Machinima is a technique for recording a video game while you control it with a joystick or mouse, and then dubbing your own voices onto the action. It's as if the video game characters were being used as puppets. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machinima ikipedia's entry on Machinima].
*** I'd have issues with that, :-) Other votes?


**** Maybe "Linguistic Issues Pertaining to Lojban" -- Adam
There now exist programs which exist for nothing but machinima. "[http://www.lionhead.com/themovies/ he Movies]" lets you choose characters, props and backgrounds which you can puppeteer to create your own film. Online virtual worlds such as "[http://secondlife.com econd Life]" and "[http://www.there.com here]", while they are used for far more than machinima, are so customizable that they now serve as ideal platforms for it. [http://sketchup.google.com/ oogle SketchUp] is an incredibly easy 3D modeling program that I have learned how to operate. It can be used to create avatars, props, sets and other models to be imported into machinima software.
***** Works for me. -Robin


*** <hr> between the questions. -Robin
Hence I imagined Lojban's answer to Japanimation: "Lojbanimation" or {lojbo skina}. An ideal source material would be a short story rather than a novel. In it, the characters should have some reason to speak an artificial language, rather than have English speakers inexplicably speaking Lojban instead. Another ideal aspect would be a story released under a Creative Commons license that allows free copying and derivative works.
** Question 1


*** "nderstanding the potential for Sapir-Whorf effects may lead to better inter-cultural understanding, promoting communication and peace."  -- Aaawww, what a cute fwuffy widdew bunny!!  -Robin
I know of no work that meets all these criteria unless we write one ourselves. The best candidate I know of is "Fossil Games" by Tom Purdom, although it's fully copyrighted. The characters live so long that they learn several artificial languages, so it would be a minor
**** I wanted this out, but John overruled me...


** Question 2
alteration to change the story to have them speak Lojban all the time. The sets are easy to build because they're all either indoors or in an empty Mars-like desert. The story has fascinating political drama, hard science, eye-catching characters, and robot combat. It has a
*** "Ambiguity can be judged on four levels: the phonological-graphical, the morphological, the syntactic, and the semantic."  -- Sounds wrong. syntactical and semantical?  -Robin


**** And yet, that's completely correct. semantical does not exist, and syntactical is rare. Likewise, morphologic and phonologic do not exist. As I've always maintained, English is a whore... (You certainly can't pin this on Greek, because the -al bit is Latin; it took English to smoosh them together like this.)
crunchy technological coating and a chewy philosophical center which would pull a viewer into the Lojban mystique and culture.
*** "although pauses can be unambiguously identified in written text from the morphological rules alone."  -- although *required* pauses. -Robin


**** Don't quite get it, but am putting in anyway.
Much of the work could be distributed among multiple people who become excited about this project. It would require:
*** "produces a unique parse for every Lojban text." -- produces a unique parse for all strictly correct/valid Lojban text.  Or something like that.  -Robin


**** for every Lojban text that follows its grammatical norms.
1: Finding or writing a story.
** Question 4


*** ''nanmu, meaning 'adult human male'. '' ''nanmu'' just means ''human male''. The gismu list says that it is not necessarily adult.
2: Converting it into a screenplay format with dialog and voiceovers.
** Question 10


*** ''lenu do jacysabji da cu nibli lenu da ba banro''. That should probably be ''rinka'' instead of ''nibli'', and the scope of each ''da'' ends when the subsentence it is a part of ends, and so both ''da''s could legitimately refer to different things, without a ''(ro)da zo'u'' before the sentence.
3: Drawing storyboards.
**** Well spotted. That's why we need a ''Lojban for Intermediates''...


** Question 15
4: Translating the script into Lojban.
*** The question claims that Lojban has ''non-English diphthongs''. I don't think that Lojban actually has any of those.


**** Loglan holdover. Struck.
5: Modeling the characters, props and sets in 3D.
*** ''Medial consonant clusters are also restricted, to prevent ... consecutive stops.'' Consecutive stops are in no way prohibited in Lojban.


**** Loglan holdover. Struck.
6: If we decide to use Second Life, probably purchasing land and paying to put the models in it.
*** "How can a language be appropriate as an international auxiliary language when it is difficult to pronounce?"  -- I notice that "Who the hell said lojban was an int aux lang?" doesn't appear in the answer. 8)  -Robin


**** Again, holdover from the 1969 discussion of Loglan. Any mention of auxiliary language is joyfully struck (exorcising my esperantic demons), and supplanted with 'culturally neutral', which is the real point of any such questions.
7: Puppeteering and recording the models in machinima software such as Second Life.
*** The IPA character for the Lojban buffering sound appears as barred i (mid high unrounded vowel) in the PDF print, but small capital I was probably intended. -[[User:tsali|tsali]]


**** While barred i is the realisation I'd prefer (more distinct than lax front I), and is certainly allowed by CLL, it is inconsistent with the example given; so I yield.
8: Recording our voices acting the Lojban script.
** Question 16


*** "The Logical Language Group has proposed formal tests of the algorithm, and is instrumenting its software used for teaching vocabulary to allow data to be gathered that will confirm or refute this hypothesis" -- Long since has done, I think.  -Robin
9: Editing it all together with music and English subtitles.
**** and has instrumented its software used for teaching vocabulary to allow data to be gathered that can confirm or refute this hypothesis.


** Question 22
10: Posting it to [http://www.youtube.com outube], [http://video.google.com oogle Video], and [http://www.archive.org/ nternet Archive] under a liberal license like [http://labs.creativecommons.org/license/zero C-Zero].
*** "In a highly complex system (which any language, even an artificial one, is),"  -- Even a well-developed artificial one, anyways. -Robin


**** Any language is a highly complex system?even an artificial language, as long as it is non-trivial. (This certainly holds true for Lojban!) In such a system, the interaction of the design features displays properties that are more than the sum of its parts.
11: Submitting the link to my friend Cory Doctorow at BoingBoing.net who will probably blog the $#14 out of it.
*** "insights that would then be tested in the natural languages." -- s/in the/in/ -Robin


** Question 23
12: Welcoming the influx of newbies.
*** "we don't know what features of a language might be determining to a culture."  -- I fail to understand this sentence, and I don't know if it's the sentence or me. -Robin


**** Oddly enough, it looks to me like a calque from Greek, but I'm fairly sure it's John's. I'll make it "decisive".
- [[jbocre: Matt Arnold|Matt Arnold]] AKA epkat
** Question 24
 
*** Your math is dubious, as you never theorize how long it takes to learn a 4th language.
**** Am querying John.
 
***** Saith John, it should probably be worded more like this:  "Assume that you can learn a second language in four years, and further languages in two more years each.  If you can learn an artificial language (to the same degree) in only one year due to its greater simplicity and regularity, then you can save a year by learning the artificial language first and then spending only two years on further natural languages, even if you never use the artificial language again.
***** But while this argument may have some merit for E-o, it's complete shite for Lojban, [[jbocre: John Cowan MO|John Cowan MO]].  I would be in favor of dropping this question altogether.
 
***** Heh.  Until someone does a study proving it wrong...  8)  --RobinLeePowell
***The editors have spoken. I've commented the question out, and John is right that Lojban is a little too alien to serve as a good 'propaedeutic' (pre-teaching tool). We'll wait on the stats; Lojban propaganda doesn't really need more Gedanken, and this is an angle the Esperantists have been long pushing, with noone visible in Lojban to push back; it's too risky a move politically. Out it goes. -- n
 
** Quesiton 25
*** ''zdane'ikemcmafagyso'ikemprununje'a'': ''je'a'' is a rafsi for ''jecta'', not ''jelca''. -- Adam
 
**** Middle Lojban holdover. Struck.
 
** Question 5:  s/comparision/comparison/  -ScottW
** Question 13: s/necesssary/necessary/    -ScottW
 
** Question 16: s/occurence/occurrence/ (or is this a Commonwealth spelling?) -ScottW
** Question 19: s/sufficent/sufficient/    -ScottW
 
*** [[jbocre: Moved from below because I have a comment. Move it back afterwards.|Moved from below because I have a comment. Move it back afterwards.]]  "Many Amerindian languages use these type of words." -- Native American, please.  Indians are from India.  -Robin
**** Though Amerindian is utterly standard terminology in linguistics, this document is not intended for linguists; reluctantly changed.
 
***** "Native American" refers to anyone born in the Americas, no matter what their ancestry. Pragmatically, it refers to American aboriginals, but then pragmatically so does "Indian" and "American Indian". "Amerindian" is never used to refer to anything but American aboriginals, and such a contraction isn't a possible way to refer to an American of Bharat ancestry or origin in English, and so especially if that's the standard term in linguistics, I think that's what should be used. Certainly no non-linguist will be confused or even surprised by the usage of "Amerindian". (Also under Grammar->attitudinals) -- Adam
***** Overruled; the denotation of 'Native American' is also clear, and less obviously jargonish than 'Amerindian'. As proven by Robin. :-)

Revision as of 17:04, 4 November 2013

Every time I go to a convention, there is usually an anime room. Sitting in there watching the otaku enjoy subtitled animation from Japan, I am impressed by how powerfully this medium spreads a foreign language through other cultures. I think back to the anime conventions I've visited and consider the classes on Japanese that they teach there! An entire subculture exists online, called "fansubbing", for amateur hobbyists to translate Japanese culture into English and other languages before it is officially released.

For another example, audiences hear Klingon spoken with subtitles in Star Trek, or Quenya spoken with subtitles in The Lord of the Rings, and are captivated by the setting that language creates. Not only could Lojban gain the speakers that it needs by using this effect, it's fun to create a film.

Animation once required prohibitive amounts of time and money. But with the advent of machinima, that's no longer true, if you're willing to settle for relatively crude computer animation. Machinima is a technique for recording a video game while you control it with a joystick or mouse, and then dubbing your own voices onto the action. It's as if the video game characters were being used as puppets. See ikipedia's entry on Machinima.

There now exist programs which exist for nothing but machinima. "he Movies" lets you choose characters, props and backgrounds which you can puppeteer to create your own film. Online virtual worlds such as "econd Life" and "here", while they are used for far more than machinima, are so customizable that they now serve as ideal platforms for it. oogle SketchUp is an incredibly easy 3D modeling program that I have learned how to operate. It can be used to create avatars, props, sets and other models to be imported into machinima software.

Hence I imagined Lojban's answer to Japanimation: "Lojbanimation" or {lojbo skina}. An ideal source material would be a short story rather than a novel. In it, the characters should have some reason to speak an artificial language, rather than have English speakers inexplicably speaking Lojban instead. Another ideal aspect would be a story released under a Creative Commons license that allows free copying and derivative works.

I know of no work that meets all these criteria unless we write one ourselves. The best candidate I know of is "Fossil Games" by Tom Purdom, although it's fully copyrighted. The characters live so long that they learn several artificial languages, so it would be a minor

alteration to change the story to have them speak Lojban all the time. The sets are easy to build because they're all either indoors or in an empty Mars-like desert. The story has fascinating political drama, hard science, eye-catching characters, and robot combat. It has a

crunchy technological coating and a chewy philosophical center which would pull a viewer into the Lojban mystique and culture.

Much of the work could be distributed among multiple people who become excited about this project. It would require:

1: Finding or writing a story.

2: Converting it into a screenplay format with dialog and voiceovers.

3: Drawing storyboards.

4: Translating the script into Lojban.

5: Modeling the characters, props and sets in 3D.

6: If we decide to use Second Life, probably purchasing land and paying to put the models in it.

7: Puppeteering and recording the models in machinima software such as Second Life.

8: Recording our voices acting the Lojban script.

9: Editing it all together with music and English subtitles.

10: Posting it to outube, oogle Video, and nternet Archive under a liberal license like C-Zero.

11: Submitting the link to my friend Cory Doctorow at BoingBoing.net who will probably blog the $#14 out of it.

12: Welcoming the influx of newbies.

- Matt Arnold AKA epkat