AgainAgain: Difference between revisions
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It is patently obvious to some of us, including several of the more expert lojbanists, that a tense for 'again' would, at the very least, be Really Nice, if not Absolutely Necessary. | It is patently obvious to some of us, including several of the more expert lojbanists, that a tense for 'again' would, at the very least, be Really Nice, if not Absolutely Necessary. | ||
Here is a list of things that ''will not'' work: | Here is a list of things that ''will not'' work: | ||
* za'ure'u | * za'ure'u | ||
** The consensus seems to be that this is "more than once", which in some contexts does the job, but certainly not in all of them. | ** The consensus seems to be that this is "more than once", which in some contexts does the job, but certainly not in all of them. | ||
***What consensus? "more than once" is ''za'uroi''. I don't see any problem with ''za'ure'u'', which means "other than the first time". --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]] | ***What consensus? "more than once" is ''za'uroi''. I don't see any problem with ''za'ure'u'', which means "other than the first time". --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]] | ||
Possible solutions: | ==Possible solutions:== | ||
* Something like ji'are'u | * Something like ji'are'u | ||
** This would require creating a ji'a-like cmavo in PA (changing the selma'o of ji'a is right out). It would probably mean "one more than the current value". -RobinLeePowell | ** This would require creating a ji'a-like cmavo in PA (changing the selma'o of ji'a is right out). It would probably mean "one more than the current value". -RobinLeePowell | ||
* A member of PA meaning "the current value", call it xa'i'i, so you'd have za'uxa'i'ire'u | * A member of PA meaning "the current value", call it xa'i'i, so you'd have za'uxa'i'ire'u | ||
** Note that you *cannot* use VUhU before re'u. I have no idea why. -RobinLeePowell | ** Note that you *cannot* use VUhU before re'u. I have no idea why. -RobinLeePowell | ||
** You seem to be looking for a way of saying "next time" rather than "again". --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]] | ** You seem to be looking for a way of saying "next time" rather than "again". --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]] | ||
* ji'ano'ore'u | * ji'ano'ore'u | ||
** Works, is almost comprehensible. Rather ugly, though, and not as many uses as the current value PA. -RobinLeePowell | ** Works, is almost comprehensible. Rather ugly, though, and not as many uses as the current value PA. -RobinLeePowell | ||
***Do you mean ''no'oji'are'u''? Indicators always modify the previous word. --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]] | |||
==Final solution== | |||
by [[la gleki]]: | |||
{{jvs|za'ure'u}} has always been used as "again" and now we can only adapt our explanations to usage: {za'u lo mlatu} = "more of the cats, more cats" {za'u pa lo mlatu} = "more than one of the cats" | |||
{za'u lo mlatu} is the same as {za'u xo'e lo mlatu} where {xo'e} is the default number assumed from context (but this {xo'e} in not that necessary in this explanation). | |||
Anyway, {za'ure'u} is "again, for one more time or for n more times", {za'upare'u} is "for the second/third/... time". | |||
Notice also that {lo za'u mlatu} means "cats" and denotes plural number. | |||
*** | "I'm calling multiple times" is {mi za'uparoi fonjo'e}. | ||
First let's do with natural numbers: | |||
* {rere'u} says you are calling **for** the second time. | |||
* {reroi} says you are calling twice. | |||
Now with {za'u}: | |||
* {za'ure'u} says you are calling **for** one more time or **for** *n* more times, i.e. "again". | |||
* {za'upare'u} says you are calling not for the first time. | |||
* {za'uroi} says you are calling more times (probably more than previously expected). | |||
* {za'uparoi} says you are calling multiple times. |
Latest revision as of 08:54, 25 July 2014
It is patently obvious to some of us, including several of the more expert lojbanists, that a tense for 'again' would, at the very least, be Really Nice, if not Absolutely Necessary.
Here is a list of things that will not work:
- za'ure'u
- The consensus seems to be that this is "more than once", which in some contexts does the job, but certainly not in all of them.
- What consensus? "more than once" is za'uroi. I don't see any problem with za'ure'u, which means "other than the first time". --xorxes
- The consensus seems to be that this is "more than once", which in some contexts does the job, but certainly not in all of them.
Possible solutions:
- Something like ji'are'u
- This would require creating a ji'a-like cmavo in PA (changing the selma'o of ji'a is right out). It would probably mean "one more than the current value". -RobinLeePowell
- A member of PA meaning "the current value", call it xa'i'i, so you'd have za'uxa'i'ire'u
- Note that you *cannot* use VUhU before re'u. I have no idea why. -RobinLeePowell
- You seem to be looking for a way of saying "next time" rather than "again". --xorxes
- ji'ano'ore'u
- Works, is almost comprehensible. Rather ugly, though, and not as many uses as the current value PA. -RobinLeePowell
- Do you mean no'oji'are'u? Indicators always modify the previous word. --xorxes
- Works, is almost comprehensible. Rather ugly, though, and not as many uses as the current value PA. -RobinLeePowell
Final solution
by la gleki:
za'ure'u has always been used as "again" and now we can only adapt our explanations to usage: {za'u lo mlatu} = "more of the cats, more cats" {za'u pa lo mlatu} = "more than one of the cats" {za'u lo mlatu} is the same as {za'u xo'e lo mlatu} where {xo'e} is the default number assumed from context (but this {xo'e} in not that necessary in this explanation). Anyway, {za'ure'u} is "again, for one more time or for n more times", {za'upare'u} is "for the second/third/... time". Notice also that {lo za'u mlatu} means "cats" and denotes plural number.
"I'm calling multiple times" is {mi za'uparoi fonjo'e}.
First let's do with natural numbers:
- {rere'u} says you are calling **for** the second time.
- {reroi} says you are calling twice.
Now with {za'u}:
- {za'ure'u} says you are calling **for** one more time or **for** *n* more times, i.e. "again".
- {za'upare'u} says you are calling not for the first time.
- {za'uroi} says you are calling more times (probably more than previously expected).
- {za'uparoi} says you are calling multiple times.