AgainAgain: Difference between revisions

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It is patently obvious to some of us, including several of the more expert lojbanists, that a tense for 'again' would, at the very least, be Really Nice, if not Absolutely Necessary.
It is patently obvious to some of us, including several of the more expert lojbanists, that a tense for 'again' would, at the very least, be Really Nice, if not Absolutely Necessary.


Here is a list of things that ''will not'' work:
Here is a list of things that ''will not'' work:
* za'ure'u
* za'ure'u
** The consensus seems to be that this is "more than once", which in some contexts does the job, but certainly not in all of them.
** The consensus seems to be that this is "more than once", which in some contexts does the job, but certainly not in all of them.
***What consensus? "more than once" is ''za'uroi''. I don't see any problem with ''za'ure'u'', which means "other than the first time". --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]]
***What consensus? "more than once" is ''za'uroi''. I don't see any problem with ''za'ure'u'', which means "other than the first time". --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]]


Possible solutions:
==Possible solutions:==
 
* Something like ji'are'u
* Something like ji'are'u
** This would require creating a ji'a-like cmavo in PA (changing the selma'o of ji'a is right out).  It would probably mean "one more than the current value". -RobinLeePowell
** This would require creating a ji'a-like cmavo in PA (changing the selma'o of ji'a is right out).  It would probably mean "one more than the current value". -RobinLeePowell
* A member of PA meaning "the current value", call it xa'i'i, so you'd have za'uxa'i'ire'u
* A member of PA meaning "the current value", call it xa'i'i, so you'd have za'uxa'i'ire'u
** Note that you *cannot* use VUhU before re'u.  I have no idea why.  -RobinLeePowell
** Note that you *cannot* use VUhU before re'u.  I have no idea why.  -RobinLeePowell
** You seem to be looking for a way of saying "next time" rather than "again". --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]]
** You seem to be looking for a way of saying "next time" rather than "again". --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]]
* ji'ano'ore'u
* ji'ano'ore'u
** Works, is almost comprehensible.  Rather ugly, though, and not as many uses as the current value PA. -RobinLeePowell
** Works, is almost comprehensible.  Rather ugly, though, and not as many uses as the current value PA. -RobinLeePowell
***Do you mean ''no'oji'are'u''? Indicators always modify the previous word. --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]]


***Do you mean ''no'oji'are'u''? Indicators always modify the previous word. --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]]
==Final solution==
by [[la gleki]]:
 
{{jvs|za'ure'u}} has always been used as "again" and now we can only adapt our explanations to usage: {za'u lo mlatu} = "more of the cats, more cats" {za'u pa lo mlatu} = "more than one of the cats"
{za'u lo mlatu} is the same as {za'u xo'e lo mlatu} where {xo'e} is the default number assumed from context (but this {xo'e} in not that necessary in this explanation).
Anyway, {za'ure'u} is "again, for one more time or for n more times", {za'upare'u} is "for the second/third/... time".
Notice also that {lo za'u mlatu} means "cats" and denotes plural number.

Revision as of 06:28, 25 July 2014

It is patently obvious to some of us, including several of the more expert lojbanists, that a tense for 'again' would, at the very least, be Really Nice, if not Absolutely Necessary.

Here is a list of things that will not work:

  • za'ure'u
    • The consensus seems to be that this is "more than once", which in some contexts does the job, but certainly not in all of them.
      • What consensus? "more than once" is za'uroi. I don't see any problem with za'ure'u, which means "other than the first time". --xorxes

Possible solutions:

  • Something like ji'are'u
    • This would require creating a ji'a-like cmavo in PA (changing the selma'o of ji'a is right out). It would probably mean "one more than the current value". -RobinLeePowell
  • A member of PA meaning "the current value", call it xa'i'i, so you'd have za'uxa'i'ire'u
    • Note that you *cannot* use VUhU before re'u. I have no idea why. -RobinLeePowell
    • You seem to be looking for a way of saying "next time" rather than "again". --xorxes
  • ji'ano'ore'u
    • Works, is almost comprehensible. Rather ugly, though, and not as many uses as the current value PA. -RobinLeePowell
      • Do you mean no'oji'are'u? Indicators always modify the previous word. --xorxes

Final solution

by la gleki:

za'ure'u has always been used as "again" and now we can only adapt our explanations to usage: {za'u lo mlatu} = "more of the cats, more cats" {za'u pa lo mlatu} = "more than one of the cats" {za'u lo mlatu} is the same as {za'u xo'e lo mlatu} where {xo'e} is the default number assumed from context (but this {xo'e} in not that necessary in this explanation). Anyway, {za'ure'u} is "again, for one more time or for n more times", {za'upare'u} is "for the second/third/... time". Notice also that {lo za'u mlatu} means "cats" and denotes plural number.