Difference between revisions of "xa'o"

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'''xa'o''' was [http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9301/msg00048.html first proposed] by [[Colin Fine|Colin Fine]]
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*There seems to be some confusion as to whether '''xa'o''' means ''happening before the natural beginning'' or ''stopping before the natural end''.
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**I vote for the former, ''happening before the natural beginning'', being the mirror image of '''za'o''' and also referring to a time span which the event does occur, which gives the latter to '''xa'o na'''.
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**In addition, I propose that [[bi'a|bi'a]] be used for the standard word. '''xa'o''' sounds too close to '''za'o'''.
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***Well, that's why it was chosen such! I recall the original definition was that of stopping too soon. Beginning too soon or too late can be expressed as '''xa'o na''' or '''za'o na''', respectively.
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{{mu|I started going too late|mi za'o na klama|For too long I didn't go}}. Very elegant!
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**Either way you chose, the other meaning is '''xa'o na'''. I like ''happening before the natural beginning'', because, like '''za'o''' it refers to a span when the event happens (and doesn't contain a negative), whereas '''xa'o na''' refers to a span when the event doesn't happen (and does contain a negative).
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***Then again, we could also create a new (experimental!) cmavo that indicates the "natural" time, as opposed to the actual time. With this, '''mi za'o klama''' could become something like
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{{mu|mi ca'o <nowiki>[new cmavo]</nowiki> mo'u klama|I continue to go, but the natural stopping time of that going is now}}
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***This permits wackier combinations, where you can easily express ''I went left, but it was natural that I'd gone up''.
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== Proposed definition ==
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{{cmavo|xa'o|ZAhO|It indicates that a situation is in advance of its natural or expected starting point, already taking place. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates a concurrent event that was expected to be prior. '''broda xa'o lo nu brode''' {{=}} '''xa'o broda ca lo nu brode'''. Keywords: "already", "already when ..."}}
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{{mu|ko'a xa'o dasni lo cpanystizu e lo trosko i ku'i mi'a denpa lo bavlamnanca fo lo nu cpana ko'a|He already wears a saddle and bridle, but we will wait until next year to get on him.}}
  
See: [http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Teahouse/2769/entries.html
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{{mu|mi ca lo nu verba cu mutce clira ckali'a ca ro cerni i la patfu ca'o gunka xa'o lo nu mi ckali'a|As a child, I got up very early each morning and Daddy was already working when I got up.}}
 
 
for] an extremely thorough (and delightfully designed) webpage on all things tea-related.
 

Latest revision as of 11:44, 30 June 2018

xa'o was first proposed by Colin Fine

  • There seems to be some confusion as to whether xa'o means happening before the natural beginning or stopping before the natural end.
    • I vote for the former, happening before the natural beginning, being the mirror image of za'o and also referring to a time span which the event does occur, which gives the latter to xa'o na.
    • In addition, I propose that bi'a be used for the standard word. xa'o sounds too close to za'o.
      • Well, that's why it was chosen such! I recall the original definition was that of stopping too soon. Beginning too soon or too late can be expressed as xa'o na or za'o na, respectively.
I started going too late
mi za'o na klama
For too long I didn't go [literally]

. Very elegant!

    • Either way you chose, the other meaning is xa'o na. I like happening before the natural beginning, because, like za'o it refers to a span when the event happens (and doesn't contain a negative), whereas xa'o na refers to a span when the event doesn't happen (and does contain a negative).
      • Then again, we could also create a new (experimental!) cmavo that indicates the "natural" time, as opposed to the actual time. With this, mi za'o klama could become something like
mi ca'o [new cmavo] mo'u klama
I continue to go, but the natural stopping time of that going is now
      • This permits wackier combinations, where you can easily express I went left, but it was natural that I'd gone up.

Proposed definition

xa'o [ZAhO] particle: It indicates that a situation is in advance of its natural or expected starting point, already taking place. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates a concurrent event that was expected to be prior. broda xa'o lo nu brode = xa'o broda ca lo nu brode. Keywords: "already", "already when ..."
ko'a xa'o dasni lo cpanystizu e lo trosko i ku'i mi'a denpa lo bavlamnanca fo lo nu cpana ko'a
He already wears a saddle and bridle, but we will wait until next year to get on him.
mi ca lo nu verba cu mutce clira ckali'a ca ro cerni i la patfu ca'o gunka xa'o lo nu mi ckali'a
As a child, I got up very early each morning and Daddy was already working when I got up.