Difference between revisions of "synonyms"

From Lojban
Jump to navigation Jump to search
m
 
 
(5 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
 +
{{quotation|In popular literary acceptation, and as employed in special dictionaries of such words, synonyms are words sufficiently alike in general signification to be liable to be confounded, but yet so different in special definition as to require to be distinguished.|G. P. Marsh.}}
  
Robin's Palm Writings: Category: ctunuta'a la feinman fi lo nu kanji
+
*It would be nice to provide each of the gismu clusters below with an advice on good usage
 +
==='''se papri | cukta | se tcidu | datni'''===
 +
*[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/9717 A recent proposal] by [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick Nicholas]]: '''se papri < cukta < se tcidu < datni'''
 +
**The proposal is retracted, but the fine semantics of these gismu is obviously something that should be made explicit
 +
*** (and probably has been :-( : [http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9402/msg00081.html])
 +
*Is a blank notebook a '''cukta''', a '''se tcidu''' or a '''datni'''?
 +
*Is a pictures only book a '''se tcidu''' or a '''datni'''?
 +
*Is a text of random words a '''datni'''?
  
Navigation: [[Robin's Palm Writings|Robin's Palm Writings Top-Level Index]] 
+
==='''klama | muvdu | litru'''===
  
* [[Robin's Palm Writings: c|ctununta'a 5 pi 0 pi'e 1 mo'o]]
+
''klama'' has all the places of ''muvdu'' plus x5 for vehicle, hence ''klama < muvdu''.
* [[Robin's Palm Writings: c|ctununta'a 5 pi 1 pi'e 1 mo'o]]
+
 
 +
''litru'' lacks places for destination and origin, hence ''klama < litru'' '''surely this should be the other way around? mi'e filip.'''
 +
 
 +
==='''nelci | se pluka | prami| se dirba'''===
 +
 
 +
''prami'' differs from others in greater degree of emotional attachment. By the way, is there any difference between ''prami'' and ''se dirba''?
 +
 
 +
''se pluka'', compared to ''nelci'', has the place x3 'under conditions'. is there any reasonable way to make it work?
 +
 
 +
*there is also ''melbi'' which is similar to ''pluka''. We need to do more thorough work on this cluster --najrut
 +
 
 +
==='''drata | frica'''===
 +
 
 +
roda rode zo'u le du'u da de frica cu nibli le du'u da de drata
 +
 
 +
ijeku'i le du'u da de drata na nibli le du'u da de frica
 +
 
 +
i mu'a ''lo djacu dirgo na frica lo drata''
 +
 
 +
''drata'' = 'another' (not the same one), opposite to ''mintu''
 +
 
 +
''frica'' = 'different' (not of the same kind), opposite to ''dunli''
 +
 
 +
see [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1954
 +
 
 +
==='''mintu] | dunli'''===
 +
 
 +
''mintu'' = same, identical, opposite to ''drata''
 +
 
 +
''dunli'' = of the same kind, opposite to ''frica''
 +
 
 +
==='''pikta | jaspu'''===
 +
 
 +
Are the following ''pikta'' or ''jaspu'' (or neither):
 +
 
 +
* foreign passport
 +
* driver's licence
 +
 
 +
* a university's diploma
 +
* marriage certificate
 +
 
 +
* credit card
 +
* ''other borderline examples?''
 +
 
 +
==='''molki | fanri'''===
 +
 
 +
The gismu definition list says: '''molki'', unlike ''fanri'', need not produce a product'. However, even the prototypical grain mill for ''molki'' can be argued to produce flour from grain. Maybe ''molki'' puts more stress on processing/treatment rather than producing something radically different. But where does the border lie?
 +
 
 +
Are the following ''molki'' or ''fanri'' (or neither):
 +
 
 +
* grain mill
 +
* foundry
 +
 
 +
* oil station
 +
* hairdresser's saloon
 +
 
 +
* tattoo studio
 +
* tailor's workshop
 +
 
 +
* ''other borderline examples?''
 +
 
 +
===botpi = se gacri===
 +
 
 +
===Needless gismu===
 +
Some general gismu are needless as they can be replaced with other gismu or lujvo. Which will simplify the language and it's learning.
 +
 
 +
* xe klama >  marce
 +
* pluta    >  ve klama
 +
 
 +
* nixli    >  fetyve'a
 +
* nakla    >  nakyve'a
 +
 
 +
* mensi    >  fetytunba
 +
* bruna    >  naktunba
 +
 
 +
* ninmu    >  fetre'a
 +
* nanmu    >  nakre'a
 +
 
 +
* tixnu    >  fetpanzi
 +
* bersa    >  nakpanzi
 +
 
 +
* mamta    >  fetrirni (logical but really not smart replacement). See also [http://www.lojban.org/publications/draft-textbook/lesson13 lesson] for an explanation of the difference between fetsi rorci, se jbena and fetsi rirni.
 +
* patfu  > nakrirni (logical but really not smart replacement) --najrut
 +
 
 +
===  Other ===
 +
 
 +
cilre tadni ctuca
 +
 
 +
bacru tavla casnu cusku skicu
 +
 
 +
cpacu lebna te dunda=terdu'a
 +
 
 +
frati spuda
 +
 
 +
notci pinka xatra
 +
 
 +
zgana catlu viska
 +
 
 +
karce marce carce
 +
 
 +
gasnu rinka bapli zukte
 +
 
 +
mokca jipno
 +
 
 +
flecu rirxe
 +
 
 +
djuno krici fatci
 +
 
 +
krefu rapli
 +
 
 +
mukti krinu nibli rinka
 +
 
 +
simla simsu '''should this be ''simlu simsa''? mi'e filip'''
 +
 
 +
sanmi cidja se citka
 +
 
 +
dertu terdi gugde tutra tumla
 +
 
 +
tricu mudri
 +
 
 +
pagbu spisa
 +
 
 +
palta palne
 +
 
 +
sraku guska katna
 +
 
 +
grasu matne
 +
 
 +
ganse sanji
 +
 
 +
ratni kantu selci
 +
 
 +
jdari tinsa sligu ranti ralci
 +
 
 +
parbi frinu
 +
 
 +
cenba galfi stika
 +
 
 +
curve jinsa
 +
 
 +
tabno kolme
 +
 
 +
bancu ragve sepli  (se ragve=te sepli?)
 +
 
 +
ckana matci kicne
 +
 
 +
dargu klaji
 +
 
 +
zbasu finti
 +
 
 +
xamgu zabna
 +
 
 +
xlali palci ?mabla
 +
 
 +
zbepi tsina ?matci ?ckana
 +
 
 +
cabra minji tutci
 +
 
 +
jivbu nivji
 +
 
 +
burna cfipu ?xanka ?badri
 +
 
 +
badri dunku
 +
 
 +
xanka burna
 +
 
 +
manci spaji jenca
 +
 
 +
fanza raktu cfipu ?xanka
 +
 
 +
rigni xebni
 +
 
 +
cnano fadni kampu
 +
 
 +
bandu snura
 +
 
 +
bebna fenki cizra
 +
 
 +
nupre kajde
 +
 
 +
stidi friti
 +
 
 +
kucli | se cinri
 +
 
 +
xajmi zdile
 +
 
 +
zungi xenru
 +
 
 +
pikci cpedu
 +
 
 +
vecnu ve jdima = veldi'a
 +
 
 +
pruce te cupra = terpra
 +
 
 +
damba jamna
 +
 
 +
turni | se tutra
 +
 
 +
xabju | se zdani
 +
 
 +
ckini srana

Latest revision as of 05:46, 16 July 2017

In popular literary acceptation, and as employed in special dictionaries of such words, synonyms are words sufficiently alike in general signification to be liable to be confounded, but yet so different in special definition as to require to be distinguished.

— G. P. Marsh.

  • It would be nice to provide each of the gismu clusters below with an advice on good usage

se papri | cukta | se tcidu | datni

  • A recent proposal by Nick Nicholas: se papri < cukta < se tcidu < datni
    • The proposal is retracted, but the fine semantics of these gismu is obviously something that should be made explicit
      • (and probably has been :-( : [1])
  • Is a blank notebook a cukta, a se tcidu or a datni?
  • Is a pictures only book a se tcidu or a datni?
  • Is a text of random words a datni?

klama | muvdu | litru

klama has all the places of muvdu plus x5 for vehicle, hence klama < muvdu.

litru lacks places for destination and origin, hence klama < litru surely this should be the other way around? mi'e filip.

nelci | se pluka | prami| se dirba

prami differs from others in greater degree of emotional attachment. By the way, is there any difference between prami and se dirba?

se pluka, compared to nelci, has the place x3 'under conditions'. is there any reasonable way to make it work?

  • there is also melbi which is similar to pluka. We need to do more thorough work on this cluster --najrut

drata | frica

roda rode zo'u le du'u da de frica cu nibli le du'u da de drata

ijeku'i le du'u da de drata na nibli le du'u da de frica

i mu'a lo djacu dirgo na frica lo drata

drata = 'another' (not the same one), opposite to mintu

frica = 'different' (not of the same kind), opposite to dunli

see [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1954

mintu] | dunli

mintu = same, identical, opposite to drata

dunli = of the same kind, opposite to frica

pikta | jaspu

Are the following pikta or jaspu (or neither):

  • foreign passport
  • driver's licence
  • a university's diploma
  • marriage certificate
  • credit card
  • other borderline examples?

molki | fanri

The gismu definition list says: 'molki, unlike fanri, need not produce a product'. However, even the prototypical grain mill for molki can be argued to produce flour from grain. Maybe molki puts more stress on processing/treatment rather than producing something radically different. But where does the border lie?

Are the following molki or fanri (or neither):

  • grain mill
  • foundry
  • oil station
  • hairdresser's saloon
  • tattoo studio
  • tailor's workshop
  • other borderline examples?

botpi = se gacri

Needless gismu

Some general gismu are needless as they can be replaced with other gismu or lujvo. Which will simplify the language and it's learning.

  • xe klama > marce
  • pluta > ve klama
  • nixli > fetyve'a
  • nakla > nakyve'a
  • mensi > fetytunba
  • bruna > naktunba
  • ninmu > fetre'a
  • nanmu > nakre'a
  • tixnu > fetpanzi
  • bersa > nakpanzi
  • mamta > fetrirni (logical but really not smart replacement). See also lesson for an explanation of the difference between fetsi rorci, se jbena and fetsi rirni.
  • patfu > nakrirni (logical but really not smart replacement) --najrut

Other

cilre tadni ctuca

bacru tavla casnu cusku skicu

cpacu lebna te dunda=terdu'a

frati spuda

notci pinka xatra

zgana catlu viska

karce marce carce

gasnu rinka bapli zukte

mokca jipno

flecu rirxe

djuno krici fatci

krefu rapli

mukti krinu nibli rinka

simla simsu should this be simlu simsa? mi'e filip

sanmi cidja se citka

dertu terdi gugde tutra tumla

tricu mudri

pagbu spisa

palta palne

sraku guska katna

grasu matne

ganse sanji

ratni kantu selci

jdari tinsa sligu ranti ralci

parbi frinu

cenba galfi stika

curve jinsa

tabno kolme

bancu ragve sepli (se ragve=te sepli?)

ckana matci kicne

dargu klaji

zbasu finti

xamgu zabna

xlali palci ?mabla

zbepi tsina ?matci ?ckana

cabra minji tutci

jivbu nivji

burna cfipu ?xanka ?badri

badri dunku

xanka burna

manci spaji jenca

fanza raktu cfipu ?xanka

rigni xebni

cnano fadni kampu

bandu snura

bebna fenki cizra

nupre kajde

stidi friti

kucli | se cinri

xajmi zdile

zungi xenru

pikci cpedu

vecnu ve jdima = veldi'a

pruce te cupra = terpra

damba jamna

turni | se tutra

xabju | se zdani

ckini srana