se zasti lo ninmu poi cisma: Difference between revisions

From Lojban
Jump to navigation Jump to search
mNo edit summary
 
m (Text replacement - "pne" to "la .filip.")
 
(4 intermediate revisions by the same user not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:


''R�manes is not a written language but exclusively based on oral tradition. So there are no real orthographic rules one could obey! Scholar tziganologists of various countries collecting and researching this wide-spread old language over quite a couple of centuries had used various orthographic conventions according to their mother tongues respectively. So I had to apply kind of 'international' orthograhic convention to give the sounds. Since about seventy percent of the vocabulary consists of Sanskrit and other Indian roots and these being the main part of the language's permanent core, I tried to mainly take examples of these 'deeper layers', enriched by Greek, Turkish, Armenian, Persian, Rumanian and Hungarian 'loanwords'. A very great part of other important sources like German, Italian, French, English and Spanish vocabulary and of course the important Scandinavian and Slawic languages had moreorless to be neglected. Despite this 'vertical' limitation, there arise problems still in a horizontal sense, due to the fact that - no wonder - also this 'common core' still varies remarkably in pronunciation according to where the vocabulary had been picked up.  In order to make the examples more recognizable, there are given severals of each with short English equivalents added. --[[jbocre: .aulun.|.aulun.]]''
the original by Edward Lear:


a  '''a'''gl'''a'''n ''(in front etc.)'', '''a'''gor ''(the start, the end)'', '''a'''gor�skero ''(finally)'', '''a'''men ''(our)''
<pre>


e  '''e'''fta d'''e'''sha ''(seventy)'', k'''e'''rep'''e'''n ''(labour, work, creation)''
There was an old lady from Riga


i  mus'''i''' ''(arm; hand)'',
Who rode with a smile on a tiger


o  '''o'''g'''o'''l ''(stork)'', '''o'''kht'''o''' ''(eight)'', '''o'''r'''o'''shlana ''(lion)''
They came back from the ride


u  '''u'''tsho ''(high; taught)'', '''u'''sht- ('''u'''shte�u) ''(to get up)'', '''u'''n(d) ''(and)''
With the lady inside


y  mut'''e'''r ''(urine)'', murshk'''e'''rd�no ''(male; having testicles)''
And a smile on the face of the tiger


ai  tsh'''ai''' ''(girl)'', d'''ai''' ''(mother)'', ombl'''ai'''p� ''(swamp, marsh)'', om'''ay'''�ka ''(afternoon)'', v'''ai'''tsutko aro ''(wheat flour)''
</pre>


au  okh'''�u'''a ''(ancient measure: 'Oka')'', ukht'''au''' ''(to jump)'', vazhin'''au''' ''(to weigh)''
As always, translating poetry is stupidly pointless, but leads to some very lojbykai stuff. [[.greg.|greg.]] would be grateful for any better translation which truly rimes.


ei  mundar'''ei''', ''(money)'', tovad'''ej''' ''(dove, pigeon)''
<pre>


oi  y'''oi''' ''(''3. p. sing. dem. f. ''this one)'', '''oi''' ''(alas!)'', '''oi'''to ''(carrion)''
se zasti lo ninmu poi cisma


ia  '''ya'''k ''(eye)'', '''ya'''ro ''(egg)'' -> '''ya'''rengero dives ''(Easter)'''''ia'''do ''(hell)'', '''ia'''zo ''(pond)'', '''ia'''nu�rie ''(January)''
ca le nu lo tirxu cu xelkla


ie  '''i�'''ftino ''(cheap)'', '''ie'''rtip� ''(pardon, forgiveness)''
.i ri ra pu xruti


ii  il'''y�'''n�v ''(to behave well/accordingly)'', '''yi'''gi/�gi ''(yesterday)'', '''yi'''l�no ''(cordial, brave)'', '''y�'''smata ''(clothing)''
je ji'a se nenri


io  '''yo'''b/'''yo'''v ''(''3. p. sing. dem. m. ''this one)'',
.i po'o le tirxu cu cisma


iu  '''i�'''to ''(fast, quickly)''
</pre>


ua  -
''Should {terkla} be {xelkla}? I thought of the tiger as being her vehicle, not her place of origin. --[[User:filip|la .filip.]]''


ue  g'''ue'''tuj ''(cries, noise)''
*of course, I was working on something like {te litru} to rime with {tirxu} at one point and couldn't make it work ; the {te} stayed over when I changed to {klama} --[[.greg.|greg.]]


ui  pab'''ui'''�ng(e)ro ''(fruiterer)'', guet'''uj''' ''(cries, noise)''
----


uo  -
''I (mi'e noras.) can make almost-rhyme if I mangle the meaning a bit:''


uu  -
<pre>


b  '''b'''akht/'''b'''i'''b'''akht ''(luck/misfortune)'', '''b'''aktch� ''(garden)''
mi penmi lo ninmu poi virnu


c  '''sh'''akh ''(cabbage)'', tru'''sh'''ul ''(cross, tower etc.)'', t'''sh'''am ''(leather, cheek, face)'', t'''sh'''amav- ''(chew, eat; speak)'', t'''sh'''ib/t'''sh'''iw  ''(tongue)''
.i ny cmila co selbei lo tirxu


d  '''d'''rom ''(street, way)'', '''d'''evel ''(God)'', '''d'''a'''d'''�ske '''d'''a'''d''' ''(grandfather)''
.i ba le nunpenmi


f  '''f'''ul(i) ''(dirt/filthy)'', '''f'''or�sk(e)ro ''(citizen)'',  ka'''ff'''ea ''(coffee)''
le ninmu cu nenri


g  '''g'''ib ''(corn, wheat etc.)'', '''g'''iv�n'''g'''ero ''(peasant, corn merchant)'', '''g'''al'''g'''o ''(gallow)'', p�r'''g'''eno ''(barefoot)''
le tirxu noi cisma co kirclu


j  u'''zh'''o ''(clean)'', va'''zh'''inau ''(to weigh)''
</pre>


'''k'''�'''k'''(e)li ''(doll)'', '''k'''o'''k'''alo ''(bone)'', '''k'''�'''k'''ero ''(lonely)'', '''k'''arem�s'''k'''(e)ri ''(pistol, gun etc.)''
''With just-as-mangled back-translation to English that rhymes:''


l  '''l'''osh�nip� ''(happiness)'', '''l'''u'''l'''udi ''(flower)'', '''l'''ubni ''(prostitute, harlot etc.)'', mo'''l'''eng(e)ro ''(vine-dresser)''
<pre>


m  '''m'''ol ''(worth, matching its price)'', '''m'''iri(u) '''m'''a ''(to wonder)'', '''m'''iro ''(poss. pr.: 'mine')'', '''m'''urd�rno ''(killer etc.)''
I once met a woman quite daring


n  '''n'''ak ''(nose; beak)'', '''n'''ak�skeri ''(snuff)'', '''n'''taima ''(eternally, ever)''
who (smiling), a tiger was bearing.


p  '''p'''�reno, ''(lover, fianc�e)'', '''p'''r�se'''p'''en ''(shame, blame)'', '''p'''re'''p'''no ''(matching)''
But after we "bye"-ed


r  '''r'''omni ''(gypsy woman, wife)'', '''r'''omni�k'''r'''i  dai ''(mother-in-law)'', '''r'''uk ''(tree)'' -> '''r'''uk�sk(e)'''r'''i m�tshko (squirrel)
She wound up inside,


s  '''s'''a'''s'''ter ''(iron)'' -> '''s'''a'''s'''tr�no drom ''(railway)'', '''s'''a'''s'''o ''(Transylvanian Saxon/German)'' -> '''s'''a'''s'''itko tem(m) ''(Germany)''
and the tiger a full smile was wearing.


t  '''th'''em(m) ''(country, fatherland, area)'', '''t'''ikno ''(small, low, short, narrow)'', '''t'''iro ''(to sing)''
</pre>


v  '''v'''�'''v'''er d�'''v'''es ''('another day', next time, once)'', '''v'''azhinau ''(to weigh)''
*Nice, I'm not quite sure about all those cute {co}'s though, especially the last one. I'm overawed by what is either a mastery of the vocabulary or a very quick eye for making lujvo which fit a pattern. The VC*C rhyming is nice! - mi'e [[.greg.|greg]]
 
x  '''kh'''aben ''(food, dish)'', '''x'''am�sk(e)ri ''(table)'', '''x'''a'''x'''al� ''(non-gypsy/Jewish woman)'', '''x'''al'''x'''ar�v ''(to spoil, cheat, deceive etc.)''
 
z  '''z'''or ''(power)'' -> '''z'''ural� ''(bear)'' -> '''z'''or�lo ruk ''(oak tree)''
 
'  '''h'''ero ''(leg, thigh/shank)'', '''h'''erengeri ''(stockings)'', '''h'''anik ''(fountain, spring)''

Latest revision as of 17:25, 27 June 2015

the original by Edward Lear:


There was an old lady from Riga

Who rode with a smile on a tiger

They came back from the ride

With the lady inside

And a smile on the face of the tiger

As always, translating poetry is stupidly pointless, but leads to some very lojbykai stuff. greg. would be grateful for any better translation which truly rimes.


se zasti lo ninmu poi cisma

ca le nu lo tirxu cu xelkla

.i ri ra pu xruti

je ji'a se nenri

.i po'o le tirxu cu cisma

Should {terkla} be {xelkla}? I thought of the tiger as being her vehicle, not her place of origin. --la .filip.

  • of course, I was working on something like {te litru} to rime with {tirxu} at one point and couldn't make it work ; the {te} stayed over when I changed to {klama} --greg.

I (mi'e noras.) can make almost-rhyme if I mangle the meaning a bit:


mi penmi lo ninmu poi virnu

.i ny cmila co selbei lo tirxu

.i ba le nunpenmi

le ninmu cu nenri

le tirxu noi cisma co kirclu

With just-as-mangled back-translation to English that rhymes:


I once met a woman quite daring

who (smiling), a tiger was bearing.

But after we "bye"-ed

She wound up inside,

and the tiger a full smile was wearing.

  • Nice, I'm not quite sure about all those cute {co}'s though, especially the last one. I'm overawed by what is either a mastery of the vocabulary or a very quick eye for making lujvo which fit a pattern. The VC*C rhyming is nice! - mi'e greg