quoting Vowels: Difference between revisions

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A '''digit''' is one of ''1'', ''2'', ''3'', ''4'', ''5'', ''6'', ''7'', ''8'', ''9'', ''0''. They can stand for the syllables ''pa'', ''re'', ''ci'', ''vo'', ''mu'', ''xa'', ''ze'', ''bi'', ''so'', ''no'' in [[jbocre: Morphology: c|cmavo]], in which case they constitute the whole [[jbocre: Morphology: c|cmavo]], as part of a [[jbocre: Morphology: c|cmene]], anywhere but at the end of it. They cannot appear in [[jbocre: Morphology: b|brivla]].
{CODE(wrap="1]][[jbocre: 20:39]] <tcatipax> ".i do ka'e jmina fi .ubu" = you have innate ability to add something to/with u? What am I getting wrong?


A '''pause''' is any number (at least one) of '''space-character'''s, possibly preceded by '''commas'''.
[[jbocre: 20:41]] <selpa`i> Is it wrong?


A '''space-character''' is a blank, a dot, a question mark, an exclamation mark, an end-of-line or an end of string.
[[jbocre: 20:41]] <vensa> tcati: who said anything is wrong?


A '''comma''' is accepted anywhere and absorbed by the following character, treated as if it wasn't there (not a space!).
[[jbocre: 20:41]] <selpa`i> It parses


A '''non-lojban-word''' is any string of non-'''space-character'''s up to the next '''pause''' such that it does not begin with a [[jbocre: Morphology: words ojban-word]]. Any string that contains an unrecognized character or an impermissible sequence is a '''non-lojban-word'''.
[[jbocre: 20:41]] <tcatipax> So, my interpretation is correct?
 
[[jbocre: 20:43]] <tcatipax> I don't know how that makes sense. It's on the front page of wikipedia.
 
[[jbocre: 20:44]] <tcatipax> The lojban version.
 
[[jbocre: 20:44]] <selpa`i> Could ubu be an abbreviation`?
 
[[jbocre: 20:45]] <Twey> Yes
 
[[jbocre: 20:45]] <Twey> It has to be
 
[[jbocre: 20:45]] <Twey> Otherwise it would be ‘me'o .ubu’, or something.
 
[[jbocre: 20:45]] <selpa`i> So maybe the section's name starts with u
 
[[jbocre: 20:45]] <vensa> its short for .uikipedias
 
[[jbocre: 20:45]] <selpa`i> There you go.
 
[[jbocre: 20:45]] <vensa> the sentence before says .uikipedias
 
[[jbocre: 20:46]] <selpa`i> Context.
 
[[jbocre: 20:46]] <vensa> hehe
 
[[jbocre: 20:46]] <tcatipax> Ah.
 
[[jbocre: 20:46]] <tcatipax> Thanks!
 
[[jbocre: 20:46]] <vensa> je'e
 
[[jbocre: 20:47]] <tcatipax> I mean, ki'e .ui
 
[[jbocre: 20:47]] <vensa> Twey: wouldn {lu ubu li'u} *cut* it too?
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
[[jbocre: 20:48]] <Twey> vensa: Not quite the same
 
[[jbocre: 20:48]] <vensa> {li ubu} seems to cut it
 
[[jbocre: 20:48]] <vensa> Twey: whats the diff?
 
[[jbocre: 20:48]] <Twey> li .ubu is, I think, interpreting it as a mathematical variable with a number value
 
[[jbocre: 20:48]] <vensa> I read {me'o} is the wuote-equivalent for lerfu strings
 
[[jbocre: 20:49]] <vensa> ok. but y not {lu ubu li'u}?
 
[[jbocre: 20:49]] <Twey> ‘lu ubu li'u’ would be quoting it as a whole utterance
 
[[jbocre: 20:49]] <vensa> what does it mean "as a whole utterance"?
 
[[jbocre: 20:49]] <vensa> if it were {by} instead and I used {zo by}?
 
[[jbocre: 20:50]] <Twey> No, not ‘lu ubu li'u’, indeed
 
[[jbocre: 20:51]] <vensa> If the whole contents of your quote ends up to be one letter {ubu), how is that different from {zo}?
 
[[jbocre: 20:51]] <Twey> lu/li'u is for grammatical utterances
 
[[jbocre: 20:51]] <Twey> Whole grammatical utterances
 
[[jbocre: 20:51]] <Twey> So it's taking that as a whole phrase that someone said, or something like that
 
[[jbocre: 20:51]] <vensa> so,would {lo'u le'u} be ok with you?
 
[[jbocre: 20:52]] <Twey> No, because that doesn't take grammar into account
 
[[jbocre: 20:52]] == sshc [[jbocre: ~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc]] has quit [[jbocre: Read error: Connection reset by peer]]
 
[[jbocre: 20:52]] <vensa> what do u mean?
 
[[jbocre: 20:52]] <Twey> So ’ubu’ would be the two words ‘.u’ and ‘bu’
 
[[jbocre: 20:52]] <vensa> it wont parse the {bu}?
 
[[jbocre: 20:52]] <vensa> so you're saying {zo by} is not equivalent to {lu ubu li'u}? so basically theres no way to quote  a U?
 
[[jbocre: 20:52]] <Twey> Not the single character U
 
[[jbocre: 20:52]] <Twey> Sure there is — me'o
 
[[jbocre: 20:52]] <vensa> (except {me'o})
 
[[jbocre: 20:53]] <vensa> but {by} can be quoted in two ways
 
[[jbocre: 20:53]] <vensa> that doesnt seem fair
 
[[jbocre: 20:53]] <Twey> You can also quote with lu/li'u, but that means that it's dereferenced too (although possibly in a different context)
 
[[jbocre: 20:53]] <vensa> another reason to prefer my term for U: {u'y}
 
[[jbocre: 20:53]]  * Twey doesn't see what's wrong with me'o.
 
[[jbocre: 20:54]] <vensa> nothings *wrong* with it
 
[[jbocre: 20:54]] <vensa> I just dont like the injustice that befalls vowels in lojban
 
[[jbocre: 20:54]] <vensa> :){CODE}

Revision as of 17:09, 4 November 2013

{CODE(wrap="1]]jbocre: 20:39 <tcatipax> ".i do ka'e jmina fi .ubu" = you have innate ability to add something to/with u? What am I getting wrong?

jbocre: 20:41 <selpa`i> Is it wrong?

jbocre: 20:41 <vensa> tcati: who said anything is wrong?

jbocre: 20:41 <selpa`i> It parses

jbocre: 20:41 <tcatipax> So, my interpretation is correct?

jbocre: 20:43 <tcatipax> I don't know how that makes sense. It's on the front page of wikipedia.

jbocre: 20:44 <tcatipax> The lojban version.

jbocre: 20:44 <selpa`i> Could ubu be an abbreviation`?

jbocre: 20:45 <Twey> Yes

jbocre: 20:45 <Twey> It has to be

jbocre: 20:45 <Twey> Otherwise it would be ‘me'o .ubu’, or something.

jbocre: 20:45 <selpa`i> So maybe the section's name starts with u

jbocre: 20:45 <vensa> its short for .uikipedias

jbocre: 20:45 <selpa`i> There you go.

jbocre: 20:45 <vensa> the sentence before says .uikipedias

jbocre: 20:46 <selpa`i> Context.

jbocre: 20:46 <vensa> hehe

jbocre: 20:46 <tcatipax> Ah.

jbocre: 20:46 <tcatipax> Thanks!

jbocre: 20:46 <vensa> je'e

jbocre: 20:47 <tcatipax> I mean, ki'e .ui

jbocre: 20:47 <vensa> Twey: wouldn {lu ubu li'u} *cut* it too?

jbocre: 20:48 <Twey> vensa: Not quite the same

jbocre: 20:48 <vensa> {li ubu} seems to cut it

jbocre: 20:48 <vensa> Twey: whats the diff?

jbocre: 20:48 <Twey> li .ubu is, I think, interpreting it as a mathematical variable with a number value

jbocre: 20:48 <vensa> I read {me'o} is the wuote-equivalent for lerfu strings

jbocre: 20:49 <vensa> ok. but y not {lu ubu li'u}?

jbocre: 20:49 <Twey> ‘lu ubu li'u’ would be quoting it as a whole utterance

jbocre: 20:49 <vensa> what does it mean "as a whole utterance"?

jbocre: 20:49 <vensa> if it were {by} instead and I used {zo by}?

jbocre: 20:50 <Twey> No, not ‘lu ubu li'u’, indeed

jbocre: 20:51 <vensa> If the whole contents of your quote ends up to be one letter {ubu), how is that different from {zo}?

jbocre: 20:51 <Twey> lu/li'u is for grammatical utterances

jbocre: 20:51 <Twey> Whole grammatical utterances

jbocre: 20:51 <Twey> So it's taking that as a whole phrase that someone said, or something like that

jbocre: 20:51 <vensa> so,would {lo'u le'u} be ok with you?

jbocre: 20:52 <Twey> No, because that doesn't take grammar into account

jbocre: 20:52 == sshc jbocre: ~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc has quit jbocre: Read error: Connection reset by peer

jbocre: 20:52 <vensa> what do u mean?

jbocre: 20:52 <Twey> So ’ubu’ would be the two words ‘.u’ and ‘bu’

jbocre: 20:52 <vensa> it wont parse the {bu}?

jbocre: 20:52 <vensa> so you're saying {zo by} is not equivalent to {lu ubu li'u}? so basically theres no way to quote a U?

jbocre: 20:52 <Twey> Not the single character U

jbocre: 20:52 <Twey> Sure there is — me'o

jbocre: 20:52 <vensa> (except {me'o})

jbocre: 20:53 <vensa> but {by} can be quoted in two ways

jbocre: 20:53 <vensa> that doesnt seem fair

jbocre: 20:53 <Twey> You can also quote with lu/li'u, but that means that it's dereferenced too (although possibly in a different context)

jbocre: 20:53 <vensa> another reason to prefer my term for U: {u'y}

jbocre: 20:53 * Twey doesn't see what's wrong with me'o.

jbocre: 20:54 <vensa> nothings *wrong* with it

jbocre: 20:54 <vensa> I just dont like the injustice that befalls vowels in lojban

jbocre: 20:54 <vensa> :){CODE}

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