phrases that differ only in stress: Difference between revisions

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(comment on the phrase ''ma canja parbi lo dotru'u lo jborupnu'')


When a word is used enough, or well-enough known, that you don't need
''is it just me, or could this also be interpreted as ''ma canja parbi lo dotru'u '''lojbo rupnu'''?''''
 
* Nope. If you're saying ''lojbo rupnu'', you need to put stress on the ''lo''. If you put stress on a cmavo alone or at the end of a compound, you need to follow it by a pause. So the first is ''dot'''ru''''ulojbo'''rup'''nu'' or ''dot'''ru''''u'''lo'''.jbo'''rup'''nu'', and the second is ''dot'''ru''''u'''lo'''jbo'''rup'''nu''.
to be told that a [[jbocre: vombatu|vombatu]] is a mammal, a [[jbocre: merlanu|merlanu]] a fish, or a [[jbocre: santuri|santuri]]
** ''do'' has the rafsi ''doi'' - is ''doi'''ger'''ku'' 'your dog' or 'Hey, dog!'?
 
*** It's "Hey, dog!" Lujvo glue exists for exactly this reason - the lujvo for "your dog" is "doirgerku", not "doigerku".
a stringed instrument, then you can drop the prefix (mabrn-, finpr-, jgitr-)
*** How is the ''doi'' rafsi useful if it must always have glue except finally? Why doesn't do stick with just ''don''?
 
**** It can be used medially: ''mibjoidoigerku'' = "your and my dog" (is this ''tosmabru''-safe?)
and use a type 4 fu'ivla.
***** Yes. If you drop the ''mi'' you don't get anything which could be a Lojban word.
 
***** Interestingly enough, this brings us back to stress - only a subtle difference in stress differentiates ''mibjoidoi'''ger'''ku'' from '''''mib'''joi doi '''ger'''ku''. Perhaps if you want to make a lujvo like that, it would be preferable to use more consonants, as in ''mibjoldongerku''.
Creating type 4 fu'ivla is more art and less procedure than type 3, because
{{See also|Stuff to be removed from the language}}
 
the foreign language phonology interacts not only with the Lojban phonology,
 
but also with the rules of well-formed fu'ivla. Sometimes a foreign word
 
refuses to be fit into the fu'ivla mold.
 
Often, but not always, the type 4 fu'ivla for a plant or animal is the common
 
name, while the type 3 is the word used by scientists. What is mabrnmakropode
 
to the zoologist, to the common man is just [[jbocre: kanguru|kanguru]]. But not always:
 
a finprgado is a finprgado.
 
To make a type 4 fu'ivla, start with the transliterated form of the foreign
 
word, and do the following steps in no particular order until you get a well-formed fu'ivla. You can test words for kamfu'ivla with the vlatai program, which is part of the jbofi'e suite.
 
* If the word ends in a consonant, drop it or add a vowel.
 
* If the word begins in a vowel, drop it or add a consonant. But if the vowel is followed by a non-initial consonant pair, as in ''antimoni'', keep it.
 
* If the word begins with a non-initial consonant pair, change it, prepend a vowel, insert a vowel, or exchange them.
 
* If there is no consonant pair in the first five letters (not counting apostrophes), put another consonant in or drop a vowel.
 
* If the word falls apart or has lujvo form because the second consonant cluster is an initial pair, exchange the two consonants or change one of them.
 
* If the word is not a well-formed fu'ivla for any other reason, fiddle around with it.
 
There are several short word forms that are well-formed fu'ivla forms:
 
* VC/CV: alga. [[jbocre: otpi|otpi]] was proposed for a lidless bottle.
 
* VCCV: iglu.
 
* CCVVCV: Many of these words denote nationalities or regions, such as tci'ile, tce'exo, kri'ibe, and bre'one, but glauka is an owl.
 
* CCVCVCV: platesa, krotalu, spinaki
 
* CVC/CVCV: kanguru, vombatu, zirkoni, vultura, falkone, salmone, magjaro, tinceme, kapsiku, laktuka, polgosu
 
* CCVC/CVCV: mlongena, skalduna, mlibdena, tcimpazi
 
* CVVC/CVCV: bauksita
 
Here is how I formed some of these words:
 
tcimpazi: I started with "chimpanzee", which transliterates as "tcimpanzi", but
 
that is a slinku'i: "pa tcimpanzi" lexes as "patcimpanzi", which might mean a
 
child who wets himself every time he complains. "cimpanzi" is no better; it's
 
a lujvo meaning a wet child. "tcipanzi" is a tool-child, whatever that might be.
 
"tcimpazi" is a well-formed fu'ivla.
 
skalduna: The Basques call their language Euskera or Euskara, depending on
 
dialect, and a Basque speaker (they define membership in their people by
 
speaking the language) euskaldun. I dropped "eu" from the beginning and added
 
"a" (the Basque definite article) to the end to get "skalduna".

Latest revision as of 05:28, 16 July 2017

(comment on the phrase ma canja parbi lo dotru'u lo jborupnu)

is it just me, or could this also be interpreted as ma canja parbi lo dotru'u lojbo rupnu?'

  • Nope. If you're saying lojbo rupnu, you need to put stress on the lo. If you put stress on a cmavo alone or at the end of a compound, you need to follow it by a pause. So the first is dotru'ulojborupnu or dotru'ulo.jborupnu, and the second is dotru'ulojborupnu.
    • do has the rafsi doi - is doigerku 'your dog' or 'Hey, dog!'?
      • It's "Hey, dog!" Lujvo glue exists for exactly this reason - the lujvo for "your dog" is "doirgerku", not "doigerku".
      • How is the doi rafsi useful if it must always have glue except finally? Why doesn't do stick with just don?
        • It can be used medially: mibjoidoigerku = "your and my dog" (is this tosmabru-safe?)
          • Yes. If you drop the mi you don't get anything which could be a Lojban word.
          • Interestingly enough, this brings us back to stress - only a subtle difference in stress differentiates mibjoidoigerku from mibjoi doi gerku. Perhaps if you want to make a lujvo like that, it would be preferable to use more consonants, as in mibjoldongerku.