https://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=long_tanru&feed=atom&action=historylong tanru - Revision history2024-03-29T15:08:44ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.38.4https://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=long_tanru&diff=96165&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "xod" to "la xod"2014-06-08T10:50:09Z<p>Text replace - "<a href="/papri/User:Xod" title="User:Xod">xod</a>" to "<a href="/papri/User:Xod" title="User:Xod">la xod</a>"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 10:50, 8 June 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l28">Line 28:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 28:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>;:'''''.ienai'''. The anonymity of Wiki drives me bats. Avoidance of personal connotations (and thus acrimony) is one thing, but it's exasperating not to have '''some''' kind of identity linking these ideas together, so one can tell if the person who said '''X''' here is the same as the one who said '''Y''' there... and also just to be able to see how the give-and-take is going in a given discussion! We can't even tell how many people there are, whether two supporting views are from the same person or different ones, etc. (And I also don't know why this page is called "Some") --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>;:'''''.ienai'''. The anonymity of Wiki drives me bats. Avoidance of personal connotations (and thus acrimony) is one thing, but it's exasperating not to have '''some''' kind of identity linking these ideas together, so one can tell if the person who said '''X''' here is the same as the one who said '''Y''' there... and also just to be able to see how the give-and-take is going in a given discussion! We can't even tell how many people there are, whether two supporting views are from the same person or different ones, etc. (And I also don't know why this page is called "Some") --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*It's called '''''some''''' because someone (I thought it was michael (''go'i''), but it could have been [[User:xod|xod]]) on another page created by means of "[[some|some]] people say that" (not verbatim). IOW, just poor [[Wiki-Building Technique|Wiki-Building Technique]] from a beginner. [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*It's called '''''some''''' because someone (I thought it was michael (''go'i''), but it could have been [[User:xod|<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">la </ins>xod]]) on another page created by means of "[[some|some]] people say that" (not verbatim). IOW, just poor [[Wiki-Building Technique|Wiki-Building Technique]] from a beginner. [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''I have always been lukewarm to [[lujvo|lujvo]] but prefer [[tanru|tanru]] (or neither, sometimes, going for the [[Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure|Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure]]). Tanru-heavy sounds good to me! --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]'' -- But I must qualify that, I think: long tanru I like, but not very long tanru at the expense of sumti! tanru are ambiguous, and using them to avoid the pain of actually working out where the sumti are supposed to go is sparing yourself at the cost of paining your listener. I'm talking about sentences that are one huge observative tanru.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''I have always been lukewarm to [[lujvo|lujvo]] but prefer [[tanru|tanru]] (or neither, sometimes, going for the [[Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure|Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure]]). Tanru-heavy sounds good to me! --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]'' -- But I must qualify that, I think: long tanru I like, but not very long tanru at the expense of sumti! tanru are ambiguous, and using them to avoid the pain of actually working out where the sumti are supposed to go is sparing yourself at the cost of paining your listener. I'm talking about sentences that are one huge observative tanru.</div></td></tr>
<!-- diff cache key mediawiki:diff::1.12:old-91700:rev-96165 -->
</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=long_tanru&diff=91700&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: ([a-z])" to "$1"2014-03-23T14:58:13Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: ([a-z])" to "$1"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:58, 23 March 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l2">Line 2:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 2:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''This page was renamed from ''Some'' since that was a really bad name.'''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''This page was renamed from ''Some'' since that was a really bad name.'''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Have I said yet that I suspect that "true" [[Lojban style ojbanic style|Lojban style ojbanic style]] might include extremely long [[tanru|tanru]]? Perhaps it is [[malglico|malglico]], or in any case non-[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>lobykai ojbanic|lobykai ojbanic]], to desire small words with poignancy. Perhaps the spirit of Lojban is to achieve such shades of meaning not by relying on a huge, historical, subtle vocabulary, but by constructing detailed nuanced [[tanru|tanru]] on the spot. By "true" of course I mean trying to go where the internal logic</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Have I said yet that I suspect that "true" [[Lojban style ojbanic style|Lojban style ojbanic style]] might include extremely long [[tanru|tanru]]? Perhaps it is [[malglico|malglico]], or in any case non-[[lobykai ojbanic|lobykai ojbanic]], to desire small words with poignancy. Perhaps the spirit of Lojban is to achieve such shades of meaning not by relying on a huge, historical, subtle vocabulary, but by constructing detailed nuanced [[tanru|tanru]] on the spot. By "true" of course I mean trying to go where the internal logic</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and flow of the language takes us, rather than trying to aim it in a</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and flow of the language takes us, rather than trying to aim it in a</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l16">Line 16:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 16:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>construct a monstrous tanru with kes and bos. Unstacking [[ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] might</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>construct a monstrous tanru with kes and bos. Unstacking [[ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] might</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>be an easier skill then de-[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>lujvo|lujvo]]-izing, recalling [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>rafsi|rafsi]], and figuring out</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>be an easier skill then de-[[lujvo|lujvo]]-izing, recalling [[rafsi|rafsi]], and figuring out</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>the place structure of an unfamiliar [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>lujvo|lujvo]].</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>the place structure of an unfamiliar [[lujvo|lujvo]].</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Whatever the case may be, since this is a very un-Englishistic habit, I</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Whatever the case may be, since this is a very un-Englishistic habit, I</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l30">Line 30:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 30:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*It's called '''''some''''' because someone (I thought it was michael (''go'i''), but it could have been [[User:xod|xod]]) on another page created by means of "[[some|some]] people say that" (not verbatim). IOW, just poor [[Wiki-Building Technique|Wiki-Building Technique]] from a beginner. [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*It's called '''''some''''' because someone (I thought it was michael (''go'i''), but it could have been [[User:xod|xod]]) on another page created by means of "[[some|some]] people say that" (not verbatim). IOW, just poor [[Wiki-Building Technique|Wiki-Building Technique]] from a beginner. [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''I have always been lukewarm to [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>lujvo|lujvo]] but prefer [[tanru|tanru]] (or neither, sometimes, going for the [[Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure|Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure]]). Tanru-heavy sounds good to me! --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]'' -- But I must qualify that, I think: long tanru I like, but not very long tanru at the expense of sumti! tanru are ambiguous, and using them to avoid the pain of actually working out where the sumti are supposed to go is sparing yourself at the cost of paining your listener. I'm talking about sentences that are one huge observative tanru.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''I have always been lukewarm to [[lujvo|lujvo]] but prefer [[tanru|tanru]] (or neither, sometimes, going for the [[Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure|Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure]]). Tanru-heavy sounds good to me! --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]'' -- But I must qualify that, I think: long tanru I like, but not very long tanru at the expense of sumti! tanru are ambiguous, and using them to avoid the pain of actually working out where the sumti are supposed to go is sparing yourself at the cost of paining your listener. I'm talking about sentences that are one huge observative tanru.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't mind claiming responsibility for this paragraph. I haven't found myself using stupendously long tanru though, I think they have been of reasonable length. --xod</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't mind claiming responsibility for this paragraph. I haven't found myself using stupendously long tanru though, I think they have been of reasonable length. --xod</div></td></tr>
<!-- diff cache key mediawiki:diff::1.12:old-91134:rev-91700 -->
</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=long_tanru&diff=91134&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: ([L-Z])" to "$1"2014-03-23T14:54:25Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: ([L-Z])" to "$1"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:54, 23 March 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l2">Line 2:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 2:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''This page was renamed from ''Some'' since that was a really bad name.'''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''This page was renamed from ''Some'' since that was a really bad name.'''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Have I said yet that I suspect that "true" [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Lojban style ojbanic style|Lojban style ojbanic style]] might include extremely long [[tanru|tanru]]? Perhaps it is [[malglico|malglico]], or in any case non-[[jbocre: lobykai ojbanic|lobykai ojbanic]], to desire small words with poignancy. Perhaps the spirit of Lojban is to achieve such shades of meaning not by relying on a huge, historical, subtle vocabulary, but by constructing detailed nuanced [[tanru|tanru]] on the spot. By "true" of course I mean trying to go where the internal logic</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Have I said yet that I suspect that "true" [[Lojban style ojbanic style|Lojban style ojbanic style]] might include extremely long [[tanru|tanru]]? Perhaps it is [[malglico|malglico]], or in any case non-[[jbocre: lobykai ojbanic|lobykai ojbanic]], to desire small words with poignancy. Perhaps the spirit of Lojban is to achieve such shades of meaning not by relying on a huge, historical, subtle vocabulary, but by constructing detailed nuanced [[tanru|tanru]] on the spot. By "true" of course I mean trying to go where the internal logic</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and flow of the language takes us, rather than trying to aim it in a</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and flow of the language takes us, rather than trying to aim it in a</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l12">Line 12:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 12:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A tendency in this direction would address the [[Great Dictionary Problem|Great Dictionary Problem]],</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A tendency in this direction would address the [[Great Dictionary Problem|Great Dictionary Problem]],</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and give us some [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis W|Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis W]] effects by providing us with a new, rather poetic, dynamic skill. In [[English|English]] we pause for a moment and try to recall the One Right Word, whereas perhaps in Lojban we should pause for a moment and</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and give us some [[Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis W|Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis W]] effects by providing us with a new, rather poetic, dynamic skill. In [[English|English]] we pause for a moment and try to recall the One Right Word, whereas perhaps in Lojban we should pause for a moment and</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>construct a monstrous tanru with kes and bos. Unstacking [[ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] might</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>construct a monstrous tanru with kes and bos. Unstacking [[ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] might</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l28">Line 28:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 28:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>;:'''''.ienai'''. The anonymity of Wiki drives me bats. Avoidance of personal connotations (and thus acrimony) is one thing, but it's exasperating not to have '''some''' kind of identity linking these ideas together, so one can tell if the person who said '''X''' here is the same as the one who said '''Y''' there... and also just to be able to see how the give-and-take is going in a given discussion! We can't even tell how many people there are, whether two supporting views are from the same person or different ones, etc. (And I also don't know why this page is called "Some") --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>;:'''''.ienai'''. The anonymity of Wiki drives me bats. Avoidance of personal connotations (and thus acrimony) is one thing, but it's exasperating not to have '''some''' kind of identity linking these ideas together, so one can tell if the person who said '''X''' here is the same as the one who said '''Y''' there... and also just to be able to see how the give-and-take is going in a given discussion! We can't even tell how many people there are, whether two supporting views are from the same person or different ones, etc. (And I also don't know why this page is called "Some") --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*It's called '''''some''''' because someone (I thought it was michael (''go'i''), but it could have been [[User:xod|xod]]) on another page created by means of "[[some|some]] people say that" (not verbatim). IOW, just poor [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Wiki-Building Technique|Wiki-Building Technique]] from a beginner. [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*It's called '''''some''''' because someone (I thought it was michael (''go'i''), but it could have been [[User:xod|xod]]) on another page created by means of "[[some|some]] people say that" (not verbatim). IOW, just poor [[Wiki-Building Technique|Wiki-Building Technique]] from a beginner. [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''I have always been lukewarm to [[jbocre: lujvo|lujvo]] but prefer [[tanru|tanru]] (or neither, sometimes, going for the [[Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure|Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure]]). Tanru-heavy sounds good to me! --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]'' -- But I must qualify that, I think: long tanru I like, but not very long tanru at the expense of sumti! tanru are ambiguous, and using them to avoid the pain of actually working out where the sumti are supposed to go is sparing yourself at the cost of paining your listener. I'm talking about sentences that are one huge observative tanru.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''I have always been lukewarm to [[jbocre: lujvo|lujvo]] but prefer [[tanru|tanru]] (or neither, sometimes, going for the [[Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure|Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure]]). Tanru-heavy sounds good to me! --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]'' -- But I must qualify that, I think: long tanru I like, but not very long tanru at the expense of sumti! tanru are ambiguous, and using them to avoid the pain of actually working out where the sumti are supposed to go is sparing yourself at the cost of paining your listener. I'm talking about sentences that are one huge observative tanru.</div></td></tr>
<!-- diff cache key mediawiki:diff::1.12:old-91122:rev-91134 -->
</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=long_tanru&diff=91122&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: ([A-K])" to "$1"2014-03-23T14:54:16Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: ([A-K])" to "$1"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:54, 23 March 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l8">Line 8:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 8:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>pre-declared direction. The existence and beauty of [[ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] hint and</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>pre-declared direction. The existence and beauty of [[ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] hint and</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>encourage us to take [[tanru|tanru]] in a direction that [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>English|English]] doesn't want to.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>encourage us to take [[tanru|tanru]] in a direction that [[English|English]] doesn't want to.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A tendency in this direction would address the [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Great Dictionary Problem|Great Dictionary Problem]],</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A tendency in this direction would address the [[Great Dictionary Problem|Great Dictionary Problem]],</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and give us some [[jbocre: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis W|Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis W]] effects by providing us with a new, rather poetic, dynamic skill. In [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>English|English]] we pause for a moment and try to recall the One Right Word, whereas perhaps in Lojban we should pause for a moment and</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and give us some [[jbocre: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis W|Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis W]] effects by providing us with a new, rather poetic, dynamic skill. In [[English|English]] we pause for a moment and try to recall the One Right Word, whereas perhaps in Lojban we should pause for a moment and</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>construct a monstrous tanru with kes and bos. Unstacking [[ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] might</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>construct a monstrous tanru with kes and bos. Unstacking [[ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] might</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l30">Line 30:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 30:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*It's called '''''some''''' because someone (I thought it was michael (''go'i''), but it could have been [[User:xod|xod]]) on another page created by means of "[[some|some]] people say that" (not verbatim). IOW, just poor [[jbocre: Wiki-Building Technique|Wiki-Building Technique]] from a beginner. [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*It's called '''''some''''' because someone (I thought it was michael (''go'i''), but it could have been [[User:xod|xod]]) on another page created by means of "[[some|some]] people say that" (not verbatim). IOW, just poor [[jbocre: Wiki-Building Technique|Wiki-Building Technique]] from a beginner. [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''I have always been lukewarm to [[jbocre: lujvo|lujvo]] but prefer [[tanru|tanru]] (or neither, sometimes, going for the [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure|Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure]]). Tanru-heavy sounds good to me! --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]'' -- But I must qualify that, I think: long tanru I like, but not very long tanru at the expense of sumti! tanru are ambiguous, and using them to avoid the pain of actually working out where the sumti are supposed to go is sparing yourself at the cost of paining your listener. I'm talking about sentences that are one huge observative tanru.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''I have always been lukewarm to [[jbocre: lujvo|lujvo]] but prefer [[tanru|tanru]] (or neither, sometimes, going for the [[Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure|Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure]]). Tanru-heavy sounds good to me! --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]'' -- But I must qualify that, I think: long tanru I like, but not very long tanru at the expense of sumti! tanru are ambiguous, and using them to avoid the pain of actually working out where the sumti are supposed to go is sparing yourself at the cost of paining your listener. I'm talking about sentences that are one huge observative tanru.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't mind claiming responsibility for this paragraph. I haven't found myself using stupendously long tanru though, I think they have been of reasonable length. --xod</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't mind claiming responsibility for this paragraph. I haven't found myself using stupendously long tanru though, I think they have been of reasonable length. --xod</div></td></tr>
<!-- diff cache key mediawiki:diff::1.12:old-88751:rev-91122 -->
</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=long_tanru&diff=88751&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: m" to "m"2014-03-23T12:23:12Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: m" to "m"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 12:23, 23 March 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l2">Line 2:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 2:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''This page was renamed from ''Some'' since that was a really bad name.'''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''This page was renamed from ''Some'' since that was a really bad name.'''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Have I said yet that I suspect that "true" [[jbocre: Lojban style ojbanic style|Lojban style ojbanic style]] might include extremely long [[tanru|tanru]]? Perhaps it is [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>malglico|malglico]], or in any case non-[[jbocre: lobykai ojbanic|lobykai ojbanic]], to desire small words with poignancy. Perhaps the spirit of Lojban is to achieve such shades of meaning not by relying on a huge, historical, subtle vocabulary, but by constructing detailed nuanced [[tanru|tanru]] on the spot. By "true" of course I mean trying to go where the internal logic</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Have I said yet that I suspect that "true" [[jbocre: Lojban style ojbanic style|Lojban style ojbanic style]] might include extremely long [[tanru|tanru]]? Perhaps it is [[malglico|malglico]], or in any case non-[[jbocre: lobykai ojbanic|lobykai ojbanic]], to desire small words with poignancy. Perhaps the spirit of Lojban is to achieve such shades of meaning not by relying on a huge, historical, subtle vocabulary, but by constructing detailed nuanced [[tanru|tanru]] on the spot. By "true" of course I mean trying to go where the internal logic</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and flow of the language takes us, rather than trying to aim it in a</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and flow of the language takes us, rather than trying to aim it in a</div></td></tr>
<!-- diff cache key mediawiki:diff::1.12:old-88209:rev-88751 -->
</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=long_tanru&diff=88209&oldid=prevGleki: Gleki moved page jbocre: long tanru to long tanru without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: l" to "l"2014-03-23T12:14:46Z<p>Gleki moved page <a href="/index.php?title=jbocre:_long_tanru&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="jbocre: long tanru (page does not exist)">jbocre: long tanru</a> to <a href="/papri/long_tanru" title="long tanru">long tanru</a> without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: l" to "l"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 12:14, 23 March 2014</td>
</tr>
<!-- diff cache key mediawiki:diff::1.12:old-87848:rev-88209 -->
</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=long_tanru&diff=87848&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: c" to "c"2014-03-23T12:06:22Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: c" to "c"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 12:06, 23 March 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l38">Line 38:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 38:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>But as was mentioned, on Wiki "ko'a goi le se jinvi cu zifre sepli le jinvi pe ko'a", which helps focus the work/play on the material.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>But as was mentioned, on Wiki "ko'a goi le se jinvi cu zifre sepli le jinvi pe ko'a", which helps focus the work/play on the material.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--mi'e [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>cein|cein]].</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--mi'e [[cein|cein]].</div></td></tr>
<!-- diff cache key mediawiki:diff::1.12:old-87784:rev-87848 -->
</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=long_tanru&diff=87784&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: k" to "k"2014-03-23T12:03:53Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: k" to "k"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 12:03, 23 March 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l6">Line 6:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 6:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and flow of the language takes us, rather than trying to aim it in a</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and flow of the language takes us, rather than trying to aim it in a</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>pre-declared direction. The existence and beauty of [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] hint and</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>pre-declared direction. The existence and beauty of [[ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] hint and</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>encourage us to take [[tanru|tanru]] in a direction that [[jbocre: English|English]] doesn't want to.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>encourage us to take [[tanru|tanru]] in a direction that [[jbocre: English|English]] doesn't want to.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l14">Line 14:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 14:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and give us some [[jbocre: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis W|Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis W]] effects by providing us with a new, rather poetic, dynamic skill. In [[jbocre: English|English]] we pause for a moment and try to recall the One Right Word, whereas perhaps in Lojban we should pause for a moment and</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and give us some [[jbocre: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis W|Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis W]] effects by providing us with a new, rather poetic, dynamic skill. In [[jbocre: English|English]] we pause for a moment and try to recall the One Right Word, whereas perhaps in Lojban we should pause for a moment and</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>construct a monstrous tanru with kes and bos. Unstacking [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] might</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>construct a monstrous tanru with kes and bos. Unstacking [[ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] might</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>be an easier skill then de-[[jbocre: lujvo|lujvo]]-izing, recalling [[jbocre: rafsi|rafsi]], and figuring out</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>be an easier skill then de-[[jbocre: lujvo|lujvo]]-izing, recalling [[jbocre: rafsi|rafsi]], and figuring out</div></td></tr>
<!-- diff cache key mediawiki:diff::1.12:old-87701:rev-87784 -->
</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=long_tanru&diff=87701&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: t" to "t"2014-03-23T12:02:42Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: t" to "t"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 12:02, 23 March 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l2">Line 2:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 2:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''This page was renamed from ''Some'' since that was a really bad name.'''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''This page was renamed from ''Some'' since that was a really bad name.'''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Have I said yet that I suspect that "true" [[jbocre: Lojban style ojbanic style|Lojban style ojbanic style]] might include extremely long [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>tanru|tanru]]? Perhaps it is [[jbocre: malglico|malglico]], or in any case non-[[jbocre: lobykai ojbanic|lobykai ojbanic]], to desire small words with poignancy. Perhaps the spirit of Lojban is to achieve such shades of meaning not by relying on a huge, historical, subtle vocabulary, but by constructing detailed nuanced [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>tanru|tanru]] on the spot. By "true" of course I mean trying to go where the internal logic</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Have I said yet that I suspect that "true" [[jbocre: Lojban style ojbanic style|Lojban style ojbanic style]] might include extremely long [[tanru|tanru]]? Perhaps it is [[jbocre: malglico|malglico]], or in any case non-[[jbocre: lobykai ojbanic|lobykai ojbanic]], to desire small words with poignancy. Perhaps the spirit of Lojban is to achieve such shades of meaning not by relying on a huge, historical, subtle vocabulary, but by constructing detailed nuanced [[tanru|tanru]] on the spot. By "true" of course I mean trying to go where the internal logic</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and flow of the language takes us, rather than trying to aim it in a</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>and flow of the language takes us, rather than trying to aim it in a</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l8">Line 8:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 8:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>pre-declared direction. The existence and beauty of [[jbocre: ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] hint and</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>pre-declared direction. The existence and beauty of [[jbocre: ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] hint and</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>encourage us to take [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>tanru|tanru]] in a direction that [[jbocre: English|English]] doesn't want to.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>encourage us to take [[tanru|tanru]] in a direction that [[jbocre: English|English]] doesn't want to.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A tendency in this direction would address the [[jbocre: Great Dictionary Problem|Great Dictionary Problem]],</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A tendency in this direction would address the [[jbocre: Great Dictionary Problem|Great Dictionary Problem]],</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l30">Line 30:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 30:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*It's called '''''some''''' because someone (I thought it was michael (''go'i''), but it could have been [[User:xod|xod]]) on another page created by means of "[[some|some]] people say that" (not verbatim). IOW, just poor [[jbocre: Wiki-Building Technique|Wiki-Building Technique]] from a beginner. [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*It's called '''''some''''' because someone (I thought it was michael (''go'i''), but it could have been [[User:xod|xod]]) on another page created by means of "[[some|some]] people say that" (not verbatim). IOW, just poor [[jbocre: Wiki-Building Technique|Wiki-Building Technique]] from a beginner. [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''I have always been lukewarm to [[jbocre: lujvo|lujvo]] but prefer [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>tanru|tanru]] (or neither, sometimes, going for the [[jbocre: Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure|Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure]]). Tanru-heavy sounds good to me! --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]'' -- But I must qualify that, I think: long tanru I like, but not very long tanru at the expense of sumti! tanru are ambiguous, and using them to avoid the pain of actually working out where the sumti are supposed to go is sparing yourself at the cost of paining your listener. I'm talking about sentences that are one huge observative tanru.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''I have always been lukewarm to [[jbocre: lujvo|lujvo]] but prefer [[tanru|tanru]] (or neither, sometimes, going for the [[jbocre: Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure|Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure]]). Tanru-heavy sounds good to me! --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]'' -- But I must qualify that, I think: long tanru I like, but not very long tanru at the expense of sumti! tanru are ambiguous, and using them to avoid the pain of actually working out where the sumti are supposed to go is sparing yourself at the cost of paining your listener. I'm talking about sentences that are one huge observative tanru.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't mind claiming responsibility for this paragraph. I haven't found myself using stupendously long tanru though, I think they have been of reasonable length. --xod</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't mind claiming responsibility for this paragraph. I haven't found myself using stupendously long tanru though, I think they have been of reasonable length. --xod</div></td></tr>
<!-- diff cache key mediawiki:diff::1.12:old-87365:rev-87701 -->
</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=long_tanru&diff=87365&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: s" to "s"2014-03-23T11:49:57Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: s" to "s"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 11:49, 23 March 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l28">Line 28:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 28:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>;:'''''.ienai'''. The anonymity of Wiki drives me bats. Avoidance of personal connotations (and thus acrimony) is one thing, but it's exasperating not to have '''some''' kind of identity linking these ideas together, so one can tell if the person who said '''X''' here is the same as the one who said '''Y''' there... and also just to be able to see how the give-and-take is going in a given discussion! We can't even tell how many people there are, whether two supporting views are from the same person or different ones, etc. (And I also don't know why this page is called "Some") --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>;:'''''.ienai'''. The anonymity of Wiki drives me bats. Avoidance of personal connotations (and thus acrimony) is one thing, but it's exasperating not to have '''some''' kind of identity linking these ideas together, so one can tell if the person who said '''X''' here is the same as the one who said '''Y''' there... and also just to be able to see how the give-and-take is going in a given discussion! We can't even tell how many people there are, whether two supporting views are from the same person or different ones, etc. (And I also don't know why this page is called "Some") --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*It's called '''''some''''' because someone (I thought it was michael (''go'i''), but it could have been [[User:xod|xod]]) on another page created by means of "[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>some|some]] people say that" (not verbatim). IOW, just poor [[jbocre: Wiki-Building Technique|Wiki-Building Technique]] from a beginner. [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*It's called '''''some''''' because someone (I thought it was michael (''go'i''), but it could have been [[User:xod|xod]]) on another page created by means of "[[some|some]] people say that" (not verbatim). IOW, just poor [[jbocre: Wiki-Building Technique|Wiki-Building Technique]] from a beginner. [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''I have always been lukewarm to [[jbocre: lujvo|lujvo]] but prefer [[jbocre: tanru|tanru]] (or neither, sometimes, going for the [[jbocre: Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure|Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure]]). Tanru-heavy sounds good to me! --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]'' -- But I must qualify that, I think: long tanru I like, but not very long tanru at the expense of sumti! tanru are ambiguous, and using them to avoid the pain of actually working out where the sumti are supposed to go is sparing yourself at the cost of paining your listener. I'm talking about sentences that are one huge observative tanru.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''I have always been lukewarm to [[jbocre: lujvo|lujvo]] but prefer [[jbocre: tanru|tanru]] (or neither, sometimes, going for the [[jbocre: Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure|Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure]]). Tanru-heavy sounds good to me! --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]'' -- But I must qualify that, I think: long tanru I like, but not very long tanru at the expense of sumti! tanru are ambiguous, and using them to avoid the pain of actually working out where the sumti are supposed to go is sparing yourself at the cost of paining your listener. I'm talking about sentences that are one huge observative tanru.</div></td></tr>
<!-- diff cache key mediawiki:diff::1.12:old-86885:rev-87365 -->
</table>Gleki