https://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=gimste&feed=atom&action=historygimste - Revision history2024-03-28T11:28:44ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.38.4https://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=gimste&diff=96071&oldid=prevGleki at 05:20, 7 June 20142014-06-07T05:20:55Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The baselined list of [[gismu|gismu]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The baselined list of [[gismu|gismu]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*The official baselined list available at [http://www.lojban.org/publications/wordlists/gismu.txt www.lojban.org/publications/wordlists/gismu.txt].</ins></div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=gimste&diff=96068&oldid=prevGleki at 05:16, 7 June 20142014-06-07T05:16:20Z<p></p>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=gimste&diff=96066&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "gi'uste" to "gimste"2014-06-07T05:13:29Z<p>Text replace - "gi'uste" to "gimste"</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 05:13, 7 June 2014</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The baselined list of [[gismu|gismu]]; another way to say [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">gi'uste</del>|<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">gi'uste</del>]].</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The baselined list of [[gismu|gismu]]; another way to say [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">gimste</ins>|<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">gimste</ins>]].</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=gimste&diff=87614&oldid=prevGleki: Gleki moved page jbocre: gimste to gimste without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: g" to "g"2014-03-23T11:58:26Z<p>Gleki moved page <a href="/index.php?title=jbocre:_gimste&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="jbocre: gimste (page does not exist)">jbocre: gimste</a> to <a href="/papri/gimste" title="gimste">gimste</a> without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: g" to "g"</p>
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<td colspan="1" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 11:58, 23 March 2014</td>
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</td></tr></table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=gimste&diff=87013&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: g" to "g"2014-03-23T11:44:23Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: g" to "g"</p>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=gimste&diff=74873&oldid=prevGleki at 16:50, 4 November 20132013-11-04T16:50:37Z<p></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 16:50, 4 November 2013</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''I created a very, very experimental Devanagiri orthography. Until I get an image up, I will describe it here:''</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">baselined </ins>list of [[jbocre: <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">gismu</ins>|<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">gismu</ins>]]<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">; another way to say </ins>[[jbocre: <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">gi'uste</ins>|<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">gi'uste</ins>]]<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The syllabic script is abandoned. So are the letters 'ei', 'ai', 'ou' and 'au'. Vowel marks now form dipthongs. The sound for retroflex 'sh' is used for Lojban 'j'. The aspirated stops are dropped. Double line for capitalization, 'aha' for full stop and other symbols unchanged. (I think writing an apostrophe would be pretty hard, though...)</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I'm currently making a graphic that will map Lojban to Devanagari, one-to-one, and I'll add a link here soon.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''A Devanagari orthography has been discussed on the list. See [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1323,] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1324, [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1341''</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Since] the topic is pretty old there, I think I'll continue the discussion here.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Yes, indeed, the "unwritten vowel" is a schwa, just like Lojban y. However, it would be much more useful in to have it represent Lojban "a" in this orthography. Now, to write a conjuct consonant starting with r that doesn't have an equivalent in an Indic language, the problem is easily solved by "r" sign (like a hook on top) Others aren't so simple.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">suggestion for using ph for Lojban "f" and bh for Lojban "v" was a good one.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Dipthongs, on second thought, would be better written, (also as suggested on the </del>list<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">) using the available dipthongs. The Devanagari diphthong "ai", although beginning with a schwa, can be used for Lojban "ai". Indeed, all diphtongs in Lojban are taken care of save "ii" and "uu". If we were using an orthogaphy like Kannada or Telugu, the solution for this would be quite simple: use the existing letters for long "i" and long "u". Unfortunately, Devanagari has the fomer, but not the latter, so to be consistent, we must use the "initial form" of each -with- the diacritic on the vowel.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''Maybe I missed this in the discussion, but when I studied Sanskrit, there certainly was a letter (and a diacritic) for long-u, as well as long-i. What I don't see, though, is a diphthong for '''oi'''.''(Because /o/ is already a diphthong in Sanskrit, the short form of /au/. pc)'' As to the other falling diphthongs, would you write them with semivowels w/y instead of vowels? And are we using visarga for apostrophe, as I would think should be obvious? --mi'e mark. Eep, it looks like some of what's said there was by '''me'''. I should read it first.''</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::Bap!:: I was thehink about 'ei'. Sorry. Yes, you can write the other falling dipthongs with semivowels. Hm... and I never noticed '''oi''' either. What about '''eu'''? Same problem. ''(Exactly; /e/ is short /ai/. pc)'' And the visarga is logical for the apostrophe. Wouldn't the danda be logical for the full stop? And the puurNaviraama for the comma might work too.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Make c into Lojban c and ch into Lojban tc, and j into Lojban j and jh into Lojban dj, Devanagari "h" into Lojban x, and all you have to worry about is punctuation. Now a full stop could be indicated using "aha", but as I said earlier, the "'" becomes a problem. So does capitalisation and the comma, because none of the existing Devanagari fonts I've seen so far have anything equivalent to those symbols. Any suggestions?</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">(Was this in the earlier messages? Transcribing English and Arabic and whatever, modern Hindi uses dots creatively: I remember dotted /j/ for /z/ -- and monolinguals saying things like /dijaster/ and /sijors/-- a brand </del>of <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ciggyboos. pc)</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">----</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Whoever was working on this, if you could describe this orthography in terms of the Unicode Devanagari code chart at: [http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0900.pdf] then a </del>[[jbocre: <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">yudit</del>|<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">yudit</del>]] <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">keymap can be made very easily, and then pictures can be made even easier. --</del>[[jbocre: <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Jay Kominek</del>|<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Jay Kominek</del>]]</div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=gimste&diff=64350&oldid=prevGleki at 16:46, 4 November 20132013-11-04T16:46:58Z<p></p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div><br />
''I created a very, very experimental Devanagiri orthography. Until I get an image up, I will describe it here:''<br />
<br />
The syllabic script is abandoned. So are the letters 'ei', 'ai', 'ou' and 'au'. Vowel marks now form dipthongs. The sound for retroflex 'sh' is used for Lojban 'j'. The aspirated stops are dropped. Double line for capitalization, 'aha' for full stop and other symbols unchanged. (I think writing an apostrophe would be pretty hard, though...)<br />
<br />
I'm currently making a graphic that will map Lojban to Devanagari, one-to-one, and I'll add a link here soon.<br />
<br />
''A Devanagari orthography has been discussed on the list. See [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1323,] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1324, [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1341''<br />
<br />
Since] the topic is pretty old there, I think I'll continue the discussion here.<br />
<br />
Yes, indeed, the "unwritten vowel" is a schwa, just like Lojban y. However, it would be much more useful in to have it represent Lojban "a" in this orthography. Now, to write a conjuct consonant starting with r that doesn't have an equivalent in an Indic language, the problem is easily solved by "r" sign (like a hook on top) Others aren't so simple.<br />
<br />
The suggestion for using ph for Lojban "f" and bh for Lojban "v" was a good one.<br />
<br />
Dipthongs, on second thought, would be better written, (also as suggested on the list) using the available dipthongs. The Devanagari diphthong "ai", although beginning with a schwa, can be used for Lojban "ai". Indeed, all diphtongs in Lojban are taken care of save "ii" and "uu". If we were using an orthogaphy like Kannada or Telugu, the solution for this would be quite simple: use the existing letters for long "i" and long "u". Unfortunately, Devanagari has the fomer, but not the latter, so to be consistent, we must use the "initial form" of each -with- the diacritic on the vowel.<br />
<br />
''Maybe I missed this in the discussion, but when I studied Sanskrit, there certainly was a letter (and a diacritic) for long-u, as well as long-i. What I don't see, though, is a diphthong for '''oi'''.''(Because /o/ is already a diphthong in Sanskrit, the short form of /au/. pc)'' As to the other falling diphthongs, would you write them with semivowels w/y instead of vowels? And are we using visarga for apostrophe, as I would think should be obvious? --mi'e mark. Eep, it looks like some of what's said there was by '''me'''. I should read it first.''<br />
<br />
::Bap!:: I was thehink about 'ei'. Sorry. Yes, you can write the other falling dipthongs with semivowels. Hm... and I never noticed '''oi''' either. What about '''eu'''? Same problem. ''(Exactly; /e/ is short /ai/. pc)'' And the visarga is logical for the apostrophe. Wouldn't the danda be logical for the full stop? And the puurNaviraama for the comma might work too.<br />
<br />
Make c into Lojban c and ch into Lojban tc, and j into Lojban j and jh into Lojban dj, Devanagari "h" into Lojban x, and all you have to worry about is punctuation. Now a full stop could be indicated using "aha", but as I said earlier, the "'" becomes a problem. So does capitalisation and the comma, because none of the existing Devanagari fonts I've seen so far have anything equivalent to those symbols. Any suggestions?<br />
<br />
(Was this in the earlier messages? Transcribing English and Arabic and whatever, modern Hindi uses dots creatively: I remember dotted /j/ for /z/ -- and monolinguals saying things like /dijaster/ and /sijors/-- a brand of ciggyboos. pc)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
Whoever was working on this, if you could describe this orthography in terms of the Unicode Devanagari code chart at: [http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0900.pdf] then a [[jbocre: yudit|yudit]] keymap can be made very easily, and then pictures can be made even easier. --[[jbocre: Jay Kominek|Jay Kominek]]</div>Gleki