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{|cellspacing="0" cellpadding = "10" style="border-style:solid; border-color:black; border-width:1px;" width="100%"
|<font size = "4">Nick<nowiki>’</nowiki>s dictionary notes dated April 22, 2001.</font>


=== Nick's dictionary notes dated April 22, 2001. ===
|}


'' Commentary by NN Sept. 2002 in [[brackets|brackets]]''


==== Gismu - almost done ====
{|border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding = "0" width="100%"
|&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>''Commentary by NN Sept. 2002 in <nowiki>[</nowiki>brackets<nowiki>]</nowiki>''


*[[Not sure what we meant by that: ongoing tidying up? The various secondary word lists, such as roget's and oblique places, generated out of gismu?]]
|-
|
[[Image:Document1_01.png|framed|none]]
[<font color="#6D819D">http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-editpage.php?page=dictionary+notes+from+2001&hdr=2 </font>click me!]


==== Cmavo - based on cmavo list; maybe later combo-freq's ====
|-
|<font size = "4">Gismu - almost done</font>


[[That is, the priority now is to define the cmavo as they appear in the cmavo list -- including such combinations of cmavo as appear there. The notion of exploring which cmavo frequently cooccur as a unit might be considered later for addition as items to be defined. I will add here that not all Lojbanists '''want''' ''lenu'' included as a separate entry --- I certainly don't.|That is, the priority now is to define the cmavo as they appear in the cmavo list -- including such combinations of cmavo as appear there. The notion of exploring which cmavo frequently cooccur as a unit might be considered later for addition as items to be defined. I will add here that not all Lojbanists '''want''' ''lenu'' included as a separate entry --- I certainly don't.]]
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>Not sure what we meant by that: ongoing tidying up? The various secondary word lists, such as roget<nowiki>’</nowiki>s and oblique places, generated out of gismu?<nowiki>]</nowiki>


* Lojban -> English:
|-
** Keyword(s) if appropriate
|&nbsp;


** Short definition
|-
***[[As is now widely acknowledged, the keyword has failed as a definition mechanism, and this is the time for the short prose definition. Not the page-long definition and not for the corpus example, as they belong in the maxi-dictionary, not the mini-dictionary. I currently envisage an upper limit of 200 words. I envisage this being the major intellectual labour of the mini-dict. This will inevitably produce argument; such argument must be veered off the mini-dict and onto the main mailing list, at least until the advent of the Elephant.]]
|
[[Image:Document1_02.png|framed|none]]
[<font color="#6D819D">http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-editpage.php?page=dictionary+notes+from+2001&hdr=3 </font>click me!]


** [[Selma'o|Selma'o]]
|-
** Grammar reference
|<font size = "4">Cmavo - based on cmavo list; maybe later combo-freq<nowiki>’</nowiki>s</font>


*** [[i.e. What page/sections a particular cmavo is defined/discussed in CLL]]
|-
* English -> Lojban:
|<nowiki>[</nowiki>That is, the priority now is to define the cmavo as they appear in the cmavo list — including such combinations of cmavo as appear there. The notion of exploring which cmavo frequently cooccur as a unit might be considered later for addition as items to be defined. I will add here that not all Lojbanists&nbsp;'''want'''&nbsp;''lenu''&nbsp;included as a separate entry --- I certainly don<nowiki>’</nowiki>t.<nowiki>]</nowiki>


** First work from L -> E; also JCB; look for other list
|-
***[[The issue is, where shall the English to Lojban cmavo entries come from. They should be derived from such keywords as shall be refined from the Lojban to English cmavo definitions; and supplemented to comparable work done in Loglan. I remember mention made of compendia of English function words being looked up as well.]]
|
* Lojban -<nowiki>></nowiki> English:


** Words or phrases that might be looked
|-
***[[i.e. how to identify entries to include|i.e. how to identify entries to include]]
|
* Keyword(s) if appropriate


** Reference to grammar reference
|-
***[[The mini-dict must include cross-references to CLL|The mini-dict must include cross-references to CLL]]
|
* Short definition


** Lojban equivalent(s) to consider, where appropriate
|-
***[[Not clear on this. I presume it refers to multiple alternative renderings into Lojban|Not clear on this. I presume it refers to multiple alternative renderings into Lojban]]
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>As is now widely acknowledged, the keyword has failed as a definition mechanism, and this is the time for the short prose definition. Not the page-long definition and not for the corpus example, as they belong in the maxi-dictionary, not the mini-dictionary. I currently envisage an upper limit of 200 words. I envisage this being the major intellectual labour of the mini-dict. This will inevitably produce argument; such argument must be veered off the mini-dict and onto the main mailing list, at least until the advent of the Elephant.<nowiki>]</nowiki>


==== Plants/Animals ====
|-
|
* <font color="#6D819D"><u>[http://www.lojban.org/tiki/selma%27o Selma<nowiki>’</nowiki>o]</u></font>


|-
|
* Grammar reference
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>i.e. What page/sections a particular cmavo is defined/discussed in CLL<nowiki>]</nowiki>
|-
|
* English -<nowiki>></nowiki> Lojban:
|-
|
* First work from L -<nowiki>></nowiki> E; also JCB; look for other list
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>The issue is, where shall the English to Lojban cmavo entries come from. They should be derived from such keywords as shall be refined from the Lojban to English cmavo definitions; and supplemented to comparable work done in Loglan. I remember mention made of compendia of English function words being looked up as well.<nowiki>]</nowiki>
|-
|
* Words or phrases that might be looked
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>i.e. how to identify entries to include<nowiki>]</nowiki>
|-
|
* Reference to grammar reference
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>The mini-dict must include cross-references to CLL<nowiki>]</nowiki>
|-
|
* Lojban equivalent(s) to consider, where appropriate
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>Not clear on this. I presume it refers to multiple alternative renderings into Lojban<nowiki>]</nowiki>
|-
|&nbsp;
|-
|
[[Image:Document1_03.png|framed|none]]
[<font color="#6D819D">http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-editpage.php?page=dictionary+notes+from+2001&hdr=4 </font>click me!]
|-
|<font size = "4">Plants/Animals</font>
|-
|
* Proposed Linnaean genus in ablative case
* Proposed Linnaean genus in ablative case
** see Interlingua


**[[Referring to my [Borrowing words from Graeco-Latin obbyhorse|Borrowing words from Graeco-Latin obbyhorse]]
|-
|
* see Interlingua
 
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>Referring to my&nbsp;[http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Borrowing+words+from+Graeco-Latin <font color="#6D819D"><u>hobbyhorse]</u></font>


==== Cultural words - [[fu'ivla|fu'ivla]] ====
|-
|&nbsp;


|-
|
[[Image:Document1_04.png|framed|none]]
[http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-editpage.php?page=dictionary+notes+from+2001&hdr=5 click me!]
|-
|<font size = "4">Cultural words -&nbsp;[http://www.lojban.org/tiki/fu%27ivla </font><font size = "4"><u>fu<nowiki>’</nowiki>ivla]</u></font>
|-
|
* Countries
* Countries
**[[As featured [Cultural fu'ivla here|Cultural fu'ivla here]]


* Languages (> x speakers)
|-
**[[There needs to be a minimum number of speakers to guarantee equity; say, 5 million]]
|
* <nowiki>[[</nowiki>As featured&nbsp;[http://www.lojban.org/tiki/cultural+fu%27ivla <font color="#6D819D"><u>here]</u>&nbsp;</font><nowiki>]</nowiki>


|-
|
* Languages (<nowiki>></nowiki> x speakers)
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>There needs to be a minimum number of speakers to guarantee equity; say, 5 million<nowiki>]</nowiki>
|-
|
* Others - just samples
* Others - just samples
**[[The mini-dict is not in my opinion the time or place for a major fu'ivla creation project. It should only include conservative samples.|The mini-dict is not in my opinion the time or place for a major fu'ivla creation project. It should only include conservative samples.]]


==== Lujvo ====
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>The mini-dict is not in my opinion the time or place for a major fu<nowiki>’</nowiki>ivla creation project. It should only include conservative samples.<nowiki>]</nowiki>
 
|-
|&nbsp;
 
|-
|<font color="#6D819D">
[[Image:Document1_05.png|framed|none]]
</font><font color="#0000FF"><u>click me!</u>
 
|-
|<u>L</u></font><font size = "4">ujvo</font>
 
|-
|
* Much weeding - freq, badly <nowiki>[</nowiki>illegible word<nowiki>]</nowiki>, obvious


* Much weeding - freq, badly [[illegible word|illegible word]], obvious
|-
**[[Badly most-things, really. The lujvo were found as is, and I imposed place structures on them|Badly most-things, really. The lujvo were found as is, and I imposed place structures on them]]
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>Badly most-things, really. The lujvo were found as is, and I imposed place structures on them<nowiki>]</nowiki>


|-
|
* Keywords
* Keywords
**[[In fact, only insert lujvo for which one can work out a keyword|In fact, only insert lujvo for which one can work out a keyword]]


|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>In fact, only insert lujvo for which one can work out a keyword<nowiki>]</nowiki>
|-
|
* Prioritize
* Prioritize
|-
|
* Look-up usage until sick of it, in priority order
* Look-up usage until sick of it, in priority order


**[[Both the above points = More frequently used lujvo should be worked up before less frequently used. That way, when we run out of time, we have something useful to run with.]]
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>Both the above points = More frequently used lujvo should be worked up before less frequently used. That way, when we run out of time, we have something useful to run with.<nowiki>]</nowiki>
 
|-
|
* Regular types
* Regular types


**[[There are identified regular types of lujvo in the version of my paper that appeared as the lujvo chapter in CLL; these should be exploited]]
|-
** se/te - keywords for other places - DONE
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>There are identified regular types of lujvo in the version of my paper that appeared as the lujvo chapter in CLL; these should be exploited<nowiki>]</nowiki>


***[[If these even deserve a spot in a lujvo list (I am not convinced they do), their keywords are already known, because the x2-x5 places of the gismu list have been keyworded]]
|-
** mau, tol, nal, etc.
|
* se/te - keywords for other places - DONE


*** places - automatic
|-
*** keywords - manual
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>If these even deserve a spot in a lujvo list (I am not convinced they do), their keywords are already known, because the x2-x5 places of the gismu list have been keyworded<nowiki>]</nowiki>


***[[That is, the place structures of -mau, tol-, nau- lujvo can be generated automatically --- and should. The keywording will still need to be manual|That is, the place structures of -mau, tol-, nau- lujvo can be generated automatically --- and should. The keywording will still need to be manual]]
|-
|
* mau, tol, nal, etc.
 
|-
|
* places - automatic
 
|-
|
* keywords - manual
 
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>That is, the place structures of -mau, tol-, nau- lujvo can be generated automatically --- and should. The keywording will still need to be manual<nowiki>]</nowiki>
 
|-
|
* Place structures
* Place structures


**[[Subtext: there is no way in hell we'll get all the place structures of all the lujvo done '''and''' vetted. How do we get as much done usefully as possible?]]
|-
** start #2 for others, once prioritized
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>Subtext: there is no way in hell we<nowiki>’</nowiki>ll get all the place structures of all the lujvo done&nbsp;'''and'''&nbsp;vetted. How do we get as much done usefully as possible?<nowiki>]</nowiki>
 
|-
|
* start #2 for others, once prioritized
 
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>I presume this means start assigning place structures only after lujvo have been put in a priority order<nowiki>]</nowiki>
 
|-
|
* code "name-like, so not continuing to look"
 
|-
|
* verblike - attempt full definitions


***[[I presume this means start assigning place structures only after lujvo have been put in a priority order|I presume this means start assigning place structures only after lujvo have been put in a priority order]]
|-
** code "name-like, so not continuing to look"
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>I proposed a distinction between noun-like lujvo, likelier to be used as sumti&nbsp;- for which it is a priority<nowiki>]</nowiki>


** verblike - attempt full definitions
|-
***[[I proposed a distinction between noun-like lujvo, likelier to be used as sumti --- for which it is not a priority to derive place structures, because their places are less likely to be used; and verb-like lujvo, likelier to be used as selbri --- for which it is a priority]]
|
* gau, sim, etc. templates, place structures from NSN<nowiki>’</nowiki>s rant


** gau, sim, etc. templates, place structures from NSN's rant
|-
***[[My [http://www.lojban.org/files/papers/lujvopap.3 riginal lujvo paper]] contained more proposed templates on forming place structures than had made it into CLL. These can be exploited]
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>My&nbsp;<font color="#6D819D"><u>original lujvo paper</u><u>&nbsp;c</u></font>ontained more proposed templates on forming place structures than had made it into CLL. These can be exploited<nowiki>]</nowiki>


|-
|
* Marking for place sureness
* Marking for place sureness
** Pre '94 - because ''complete'' attempt


** Post '94 - not complete.
|-
** Checked against guidelines.
|
* Pre <nowiki>’</nowiki>94 - because&nbsp;''complete''&nbsp;attempt
 
|-
|
* Post <nowiki>’</nowiki>94 - not complete.
 
|-
|
* Checked against guidelines.
 
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>How to eliminate subjectivity and tendentiousness in the place structures to be included? By including typographical indication of the degree of certainty for the structures. I was vociferous that, to get this done, we should concentrate on the first 1 or 2 places wherever possible ("name-like lujvo"), and indicate this so the reader knows that there might be more, trailing places, but only these ones will be made official. "Verb-like lujvo", for which place structures have been fully elaborated, are indicated with a different asterisk or whatever. The source of the lujvo must be noted. The pre 94 lujvo claimed to set all places for any given lujvo; so they won<nowiki>’</nowiki>t have expected trailing places. The old lujvo may need to be completely reconsidered, and the voting mechanism on jbovlaste may render moot the indication of provenance = reputability<nowiki>]</nowiki>


**[[How to eliminate subjectivity and tendentiousness in the place structures to be included? By including typographical indication of the degree of certainty for the structures. I was vociferous that, to get this done, we should concentrate on the first 1 or 2 places wherever possible ("name-like lujvo"), and indicate this so the reader knows that there might be more,  trailing places, but only these ones will be made official. "Verb-like lujvo", for which place structures have been fully elaborated, are indicated with a different asterisk or whatever. The source of the lujvo must be noted. The pre 94 lujvo claimed to set all places for any given lujvo; so they won't have expected trailing places. The old lujvo may need to be completely reconsidered, and the voting mechanism on jbovlaste may render moot the indication of provenance = reputability]]
|-
|&nbsp;


==== Other ====
|-
|<font color="#7F9698">
[[Image:Document1_06.png|framed|none]]
</font>


[[Yes, ladies and germs, this was a to-do list I set Lojban Central :-)]]
|-
|<font size = "4">Other</font>


* [[lojbo karni|lojbo karni]] - when level 0 ready
|-
**[[The next LK to be issued when the level 0 was ready for distribution. In my book it's been ready for a year, but of course the flurry of activity on POD means its day is on hand.]]
|<nowiki>[</nowiki>Yes, ladies and germs, this was a to-do list I set Lojban Central&nbsp;
[[Image:Document1_07.png|framed|none]]
&nbsp;<nowiki>]</nowiki>


|-
|
* <font color="#6D819D"><u>lojbo karni</u><u>&nbsp;-</u> </font>when level 0 ready
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>The next LK to be issued when the level 0 was ready for distribution. In my book it<nowiki>’</nowiki>s been ready for a year, but of course the flurry of activity on POD means its day is on hand.<nowiki>]</nowiki>
|-
|
* JL - where from here?
* JL - where from here?
** JL


** Lang
|-
**[[So, distinct language section to JL, I presume. And that the next JL should ask readers what they want to see in it|So, distinct language section to JL, I presume. And that the next JL should ask readers what they want to see in it]]
|
* JL


* Mail Excel worksheet on Robin Lesson topics to Nick's
|-
**[[Yeah, this I got. :-)]]
|
* Lang


|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>So, distinct language section to JL, I presume. And that the next JL should ask readers what they want to see in it<nowiki>]</nowiki>
|-
|
* Mail Excel worksheet on Robin Lesson topics to Nick<nowiki>’</nowiki>s
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>Yeah, this I got.&nbsp;
[[Image:Document1_08.png|framed|none]]
&nbsp;<nowiki>]</nowiki>
|-
|
* People to do Adventure into Lojban
* People to do Adventure into Lojban
**[[My old Adventure game translation. *shrug* presumably someone will want to make a programming project of it; see discussion [Lojbanic Software lsewhere|Lojbanic Software lsewhere]]
 
|-
|
* <nowiki>[</nowiki>My old Adventure game translation. *shrug* presumably someone will want to make a programming project of it; see discussion&nbsp;<font color="#6D819D"><u>elsewhere</u><u>&nbsp;<</u></font>nowiki>]</nowiki>
 
|}

Revision as of 17:47, 24 April 2014

Nick’s dictionary notes dated April 22, 2001.


  
Commentary by NN Sept. 2002 in [brackets]

[http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-editpage.php?page=dictionary+notes+from+2001&hdr=2 click me!]

Gismu - almost done
  • [Not sure what we meant by that: ongoing tidying up? The various secondary word lists, such as roget’s and oblique places, generated out of gismu?]
 

[http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-editpage.php?page=dictionary+notes+from+2001&hdr=3 click me!]

Cmavo - based on cmavo list; maybe later combo-freq’s
[That is, the priority now is to define the cmavo as they appear in the cmavo list — including such combinations of cmavo as appear there. The notion of exploring which cmavo frequently cooccur as a unit might be considered later for addition as items to be defined. I will add here that not all Lojbanists want lenu included as a separate entry --- I certainly don’t.]
  • Lojban -> English:
  • Keyword(s) if appropriate
  • Short definition
  • [As is now widely acknowledged, the keyword has failed as a definition mechanism, and this is the time for the short prose definition. Not the page-long definition and not for the corpus example, as they belong in the maxi-dictionary, not the mini-dictionary. I currently envisage an upper limit of 200 words. I envisage this being the major intellectual labour of the mini-dict. This will inevitably produce argument; such argument must be veered off the mini-dict and onto the main mailing list, at least until the advent of the Elephant.]
  • Grammar reference
  • [i.e. What page/sections a particular cmavo is defined/discussed in CLL]
  • English -> Lojban:
  • First work from L -> E; also JCB; look for other list
  • [The issue is, where shall the English to Lojban cmavo entries come from. They should be derived from such keywords as shall be refined from the Lojban to English cmavo definitions; and supplemented to comparable work done in Loglan. I remember mention made of compendia of English function words being looked up as well.]
  • Words or phrases that might be looked
  • [i.e. how to identify entries to include]
  • Reference to grammar reference
  • [The mini-dict must include cross-references to CLL]
  • Lojban equivalent(s) to consider, where appropriate
  • [Not clear on this. I presume it refers to multiple alternative renderings into Lojban]
 

[http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-editpage.php?page=dictionary+notes+from+2001&hdr=4 click me!]

Plants/Animals
  • Proposed Linnaean genus in ablative case
  • see Interlingua
 

click me!

Cultural words - fu’ivla
  • Countries
  • [[As featured here ]
  • Languages (> x speakers)
  • [There needs to be a minimum number of speakers to guarantee equity; say, 5 million]
  • Others - just samples
  • [The mini-dict is not in my opinion the time or place for a major fu’ivla creation project. It should only include conservative samples.]
 

click me!

Lujvo
  • Much weeding - freq, badly [illegible word], obvious
  • [Badly most-things, really. The lujvo were found as is, and I imposed place structures on them]
  • Keywords
  • [In fact, only insert lujvo for which one can work out a keyword]
  • Prioritize
  • Look-up usage until sick of it, in priority order
  • [Both the above points = More frequently used lujvo should be worked up before less frequently used. That way, when we run out of time, we have something useful to run with.]
  • Regular types
  • [There are identified regular types of lujvo in the version of my paper that appeared as the lujvo chapter in CLL; these should be exploited]
  • se/te - keywords for other places - DONE
  • [If these even deserve a spot in a lujvo list (I am not convinced they do), their keywords are already known, because the x2-x5 places of the gismu list have been keyworded]
  • mau, tol, nal, etc.
  • places - automatic
  • keywords - manual
  • [That is, the place structures of -mau, tol-, nau- lujvo can be generated automatically --- and should. The keywording will still need to be manual]
  • Place structures
  • [Subtext: there is no way in hell we’ll get all the place structures of all the lujvo done and vetted. How do we get as much done usefully as possible?]
  • start #2 for others, once prioritized
  • [I presume this means start assigning place structures only after lujvo have been put in a priority order]
  • code "name-like, so not continuing to look"
  • verblike - attempt full definitions
  • [I proposed a distinction between noun-like lujvo, likelier to be used as sumti - for which it is a priority]
  • gau, sim, etc. templates, place structures from NSN’s rant
  • [My original lujvo paper contained more proposed templates on forming place structures than had made it into CLL. These can be exploited]
  • Marking for place sureness
  • Pre ’94 - because complete attempt
  • Post ’94 - not complete.
  • Checked against guidelines.
  • [How to eliminate subjectivity and tendentiousness in the place structures to be included? By including typographical indication of the degree of certainty for the structures. I was vociferous that, to get this done, we should concentrate on the first 1 or 2 places wherever possible ("name-like lujvo"), and indicate this so the reader knows that there might be more, trailing places, but only these ones will be made official. "Verb-like lujvo", for which place structures have been fully elaborated, are indicated with a different asterisk or whatever. The source of the lujvo must be noted. The pre 94 lujvo claimed to set all places for any given lujvo; so they won’t have expected trailing places. The old lujvo may need to be completely reconsidered, and the voting mechanism on jbovlaste may render moot the indication of provenance = reputability]
 

Other
[Yes, ladies and germs, this was a to-do list I set Lojban Central 

 ]

  • lojbo karni - when level 0 ready
  • [The next LK to be issued when the level 0 was ready for distribution. In my book it’s been ready for a year, but of course the flurry of activity on POD means its day is on hand.]
  • JL - where from here?
  • JL
  • Lang
  • [So, distinct language section to JL, I presume. And that the next JL should ask readers what they want to see in it]
  • Mail Excel worksheet on Robin Lesson topics to Nick’s
  • [Yeah, this I got. 

 ]

  • People to do Adventure into Lojban
  • [My old Adventure game translation. *shrug* presumably someone will want to make a programming project of it; see discussion elsewhere <nowiki>]</nowiki>