couldaBeenRafsi: Difference between revisions

From Lojban
Jump to navigation Jump to search
No edit summary
 
m (Conversion script moved page CouldaBeenRafsi to couldaBeenRafsi: Converting page titles to lowercase)
 
(5 intermediate revisions by one other user not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
The CLL's comments on comma break audio-visual isomorphism.  Chapter 3, section 3:


:The comma is used to indicate a syllable break within a word, generally one that is not obvious to the reader. Such a comma is written to separate syllables, but indicates that there must be no pause between them, in contrast to the period. Between two vowels, a comma indicates that some type of glide may be necessary to avoid a pause that would split the two syllables into separate words. It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [[jbocre: h|h]]) sound in pronouncing a comma. However, a comma cannot be pronounced as a pause or glottal stop between the two letters separated by the comma, because that pronunciation would split the word into two words.
Here are some [[rafsi|rafsi]] that could have been assigned to specific [[gismu|gismu]],
:Otherwise, a comma is usually only used to clarify the presence of syllabic ``l'', ``m'', ``n'', or ``r'' (discussed later). Commas are never required: no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma.


If this is true, then {.a,i} and {.ai} are the same word ("no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma") but {.a,i} can be pronounced like {.a'i} ("It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [[jbocre: h|h]]) sound in pronouncing a comma").
but weren't assigned to anything, with the gismu they were candidates for.


Both of this things cannot be true unless we restrict where , can go.
bep  zbepi


--[[camgusmis]]
boc  bolci


* My suggestion is to do away with either one or both of '''"no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma"''' and '''"It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [[jbocre: h|h]]) sound in pronouncing a comma"''', preferably the former, because in my mind "ah EE" {.a,i} is not the same as "I" {.ai}, but "ah EE" {.a,i} and "ahEE" {.a'i} are. --[[.aionys.]]
bod  broda brode brodi brodo brodu


My view is the opposite: that pronouncing , as ' is bogus and shouldn't be allowed. --[[cowan]]
bop botpi


I prefer 's to ,s anyway, and it seems un-Lojbanically superfluous to have both characters with such similar usages. People can use them if they want, but I hope , doesn't become the standard. --[[User:PlasticRaven|Plastic Raven]]
box  boxfo boxna


CLL 3.9:
buc  burcu


:A Lojban word has '''one''' syllable for each of its vowels, '''diphthongs''', and syllabic consonants <...>
bup  bukpu


The word {ai} has one syllable with a diphthong in its core. Therefore it is illegal to insert comma in it. --[[tengo]]
ce'e cmene
 
ceb  cenba cnebo ctebi
 
cej  ckeji
 
cep  crepu
 
cet  centi
 
cet  certu
 
coc  cokcu
 
cod  condi
 
cok  cokcu
 
cot  cortu
 
ded  djedi
 
dex  derxi
 
dip  dzipo
 
doc  dotco
 
fec  flecu
 
fev  febvi
 
fib  fliba
 
foc  forca
 
fod  foldi
 
fof  sfofa
 
fol  foldi
 
for  forca
 
fox  fonxa
 
fu'u frumu
 
fu'u sfubu
 
fub  sfubu
 
fuc  funca
 
fum  frumu fuzme
 
fup  fukpi
 
fus  fusra
 
fut  fulta
 
gak  grake
 
ge'i gleki
 
gis  gismu
 
giv  gidva
 
giz  girzu
 
go'i gocti
 
go'o gotro
 
goi  gocti
 
gor  gotro
 
jod  jordo
 
kef  kerfa krefu
 
koc  komcu korcu
 
kuv  kruvi
 
lef  lerfu
 
les  klesi
 
lip  plipe vlipa
 
lod  loldi
 
log  logji
 
lox  lorxu
 
luc  lumci
 
luk  pluka
 
med  megdo mledi
 
mok  mokca moklu molki morko smoka
 
mug  muzga
 
nec  nelci
 
nej  nejni
 
nij  nivji
 
nob  nobli
 
noc  notci
 
nub  nuzba
 
pux  pruxi
 
ro'e brode ro'e romge
 
roc  rokci rorci troci
 
rop  ropno
 
se'o semto se'o stero
 
sem  semto
 
so'u sorcu so'u sorgu spofu
 
sok  smoka
 
suf  sufti
 
sus  suksa
 
te'e trene
 
tso  petso
 
tuc  ctuca tutci
 
va'a vraga
 
vag  vlagi vraga
 
ve'i vreji
 
veb  verba
 
vec  vecnu
 
vej  vreji
 
vet  vreta
 
vo'e vorme
 
vo'i vofli
 
vof  vofli
 
vom  vorme
 
vos  voksa
 
vuk  vukro
 
xec  xecto
 
xid  xindo
 
xo'i xotli
 
xot  xotli
 
xud  xurdo
 
xut  xruti xutla
 
zab  zabna zajba zbabu
 
zad  zmadu
 
zav  zalvi
 
ze'i zbepi zekri zepti
 
zeb  zenba
 
zek  zekri
 
zik  zgike zinki zmiku
 
zur  zumri
 
zus  zutse
 
zvi  zivle
 
 
The only free rafsi that could be assigned to a gismu that doesn't have any 3-letter rafsi is ''bod'', for ''brodi'' (or ''brodo'' or ''brodu'', theoretically).
 
''hey, gotta save some rafsi for future expansion!'' --[[Jay Kominek|Jay]]
 
Furthermore, it is already too nearly the case that anything with the
 
right lujvo tarmi actually does mean something. Having lots of unused
 
rafsi (and these are only the usable-but-unused ones; there are plenty
 
of rafsi like ''xox'' or ''zuz'' that just don't fit any gismu at all)
 
makes for better separation, just as banning ''gicmu'' and ''gisnu''
 
keeps ''gismu'' better separated.  So the above list is not a Bad
 
Thing.
 
I used some rafsi be noda in the first verse of [[Jabberwocky|Jabberwocky]]. --phma

Latest revision as of 08:13, 30 June 2014

Here are some rafsi that could have been assigned to specific gismu,

but weren't assigned to anything, with the gismu they were candidates for.

bep zbepi

boc bolci

bod broda brode brodi brodo brodu

bop botpi

box boxfo boxna

buc burcu

bup bukpu

ce'e cmene

ceb cenba cnebo ctebi

cej ckeji

cep crepu

cet centi

cet certu

coc cokcu

cod condi

cok cokcu

cot cortu

ded djedi

dex derxi

dip dzipo

doc dotco

fec flecu

fev febvi

fib fliba

foc forca

fod foldi

fof sfofa

fol foldi

for forca

fox fonxa

fu'u frumu

fu'u sfubu

fub sfubu

fuc funca

fum frumu fuzme

fup fukpi

fus fusra

fut fulta

gak grake

ge'i gleki

gis gismu

giv gidva

giz girzu

go'i gocti

go'o gotro

goi gocti

gor gotro

jod jordo

kef kerfa krefu

koc komcu korcu

kuv kruvi

lef lerfu

les klesi

lip plipe vlipa

lod loldi

log logji

lox lorxu

luc lumci

luk pluka

med megdo mledi

mok mokca moklu molki morko smoka

mug muzga

nec nelci

nej nejni

nij nivji

nob nobli

noc notci

nub nuzba

pux pruxi

ro'e brode ro'e romge

roc rokci rorci troci

rop ropno

se'o semto se'o stero

sem semto

so'u sorcu so'u sorgu spofu

sok smoka

suf sufti

sus suksa

te'e trene

tso petso

tuc ctuca tutci

va'a vraga

vag vlagi vraga

ve'i vreji

veb verba

vec vecnu

vej vreji

vet vreta

vo'e vorme

vo'i vofli

vof vofli

vom vorme

vos voksa

vuk vukro

xec xecto

xid xindo

xo'i xotli

xot xotli

xud xurdo

xut xruti xutla

zab zabna zajba zbabu

zad zmadu

zav zalvi

ze'i zbepi zekri zepti

zeb zenba

zek zekri

zik zgike zinki zmiku

zur zumri

zus zutse

zvi zivle


The only free rafsi that could be assigned to a gismu that doesn't have any 3-letter rafsi is bod, for brodi (or brodo or brodu, theoretically).

hey, gotta save some rafsi for future expansion! --Jay

Furthermore, it is already too nearly the case that anything with the

right lujvo tarmi actually does mean something. Having lots of unused

rafsi (and these are only the usable-but-unused ones; there are plenty

of rafsi like xox or zuz that just don't fit any gismu at all)

makes for better separation, just as banning gicmu and gisnu

keeps gismu better separated. So the above list is not a Bad

Thing.

I used some rafsi be noda in the first verse of Jabberwocky. --phma