conversation guide: Difference between revisions

From Lojban
Jump to navigation Jump to search
mNo edit summary
 
mNo edit summary
Line 1: Line 1:


== Proposed Definitions And Examples ==
== '''Conversation Guide''' ==


===  Proposed Definition of ''ba'e'' ===
This is (unofficially) the official(est) Conversation Guide to Lojban, otherwise known as {la selsnu gidva}. Right now, as you can see, we're still in the infancy stages of development, but please feel free to contribute. The guide can't grow without your blood, sweat and tears!


;'''ba'e''' (BAhE):  Emphasize next word.  The forethought emphasis indicator.  Indicates that next word is especially emphasized or emphatic.  For grammatical purposes, "ba'e" marks the following word but does not change its nature, and does not bind with it or form a single unified construct in any way.  See also za'e, .ui.
== The purpose and thought behind this page. ==


** Keywords: Emphasize next word, emphasize next.
The idea behind the 'conversation guide' is to create a listing of topics from 'home items' to 'business place' to 'sports' and so on. In each list can include subtopics such as 'kitchen and cooking' in 'home' and 'American Football' under 'sports'. There are several goals behind this idea:


===  Examples of ''ba'e'' Usage ===
#To encourage more conversation in Lojban by providing a comprehensive list of possible words and phrases that may come up or be needed when discussing a particular topic.


le lisri cu ba'e pu zdile
#To expand the vocabulary to necessary fields of discussion (as up until recently there was no listed/official word for 'kitchen', and there still exist many objects for which we have no names that are just as common).


''The story WAS amusing.''
#To provide a way to accomplish items one and two in a fun and entertaining way for everybody involved.


.oisai mi bilga le nu ba'e ca cliva
**Anybody new to the language can search for a desired word and place a request in the appropriate list if one is not found.
**Anybody branching out to more distant topics (such as music, programming, architecture, fashion, or popular media) can participate by expanding the vocabulary in their field of experience or interest.


''Dammit, I need to leave NOW.''
== A list of currently covered topics. ==


The following examples are intended to illustrate interactions of ba'e with other words of special grammatical effect, and hence may be pathological.
This is a basic list of broad topics which started with the proposal to the Lojban list and has since expanded drastically due to the grand enthusiasm of the Lojban community. Please feel free to contribute any topics, subtopics, words and word requests, and/or useful phrases.


mi cusku ba'e si la'e di'u
* Amusements
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:a|analogue games and gaming]] +


''I said emphasis, no, the referent of the previous thing I said.''
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:s|sports and spectating]]+
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:v|video games and gaming]] +


ko pensi me'o depsna bu .e me'o ba'e bu
*Arts
**[[jbocre: conversaton guide:dance ance and other Artistic Flailing]]


''Think about "hesitation sound", and the emphasis letter.''
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:F|Film and Acting]]
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:literature iterature and Reading]]


lo nu ciksi lo ba'e zei se zei cinmo cu nandu
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:m|music and instruments]]
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:visual arts isual Arts and Gawking]]


''Explaning the emphasis-emotion is difficult.
*Computers
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:hardware ardware and Kicking Things]]+


===  Proposed Definition of ''za'e'' ===
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:internet nternet and Self-loathing]]
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:programming rogrammers and Programming]]+


;'''za'e''' (BAhE): Nonce word follows.  Forethought nonce-word indicator.  Indicates that the next word is a nonce creation or is nonstandard in some way.  For grammatical purposes, "za'e" binds with and marks the following word but does not change its nature. The construct behaves just as the marked word by itself. The two words are considered distinct for "sa" matching purposes, however.  In the case of an apparent conflict, the effects of this word (and all other words that change the grammatical effects of nearby words) should be read left to right.  See also ba'e, sa.
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:software oftware and High Blood Pressure]]+
*Food


** Keywords: Nonce-word next, nonce word follows.
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:food ishes and Dining]]
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:restaurants estaurants and Eating Out]]


===  Examples of ''za'e'' Usage ===
*Engineering
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:engineering materials aterials and Making Things]]


doi grizis mi tcidu za'e la ralcku
*Government
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:p|politics and law]]+


''Grizis, I read what I'll call "The Book".''
*Home
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:b|bathroom and hygiene]] +


See also the examples for ba'e, which is grammatically identical to za'e.
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:c|common areas and furnishings]]
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:k|kitchen and cooking]] +


===  Proposed Definition of ''zei'' ===
*Life
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:human body he Body and Its Functions]]


;'''zei''' (ZEI): lujvo glue.  Connects words into a lujvo.  Joins preceding and following words into a lujvo.  For grammatical purposes, "zei" binds with the preceding word and the following word. The combination is considered a single brivla (i.e. it is treated as just one word). In the case of an apparent conflict, the effects of this word (and all other words that change the grammatical effects of nearby words) should be read left to right.  See also lujvo.
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:taxonomy lora and Fauna]] +
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:s|school and education]]


** Keywords: lujvo glue.
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:sex hings Good People Weren't Meant to Discuss in Polite Discourse]]
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:basics hings We Learned in Primary School]] + (Seriously, any title will work here, this one really sucks.)


===  Examples of ''zei'' Usage ===
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:work ork and the Workplace]]
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:f|friends and family]]+


pe'u ro do ko friti le se .uu zei cinmo
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:r|religion and spirituality]]+
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:t|the outdoors]]


''Please, all of you offer your sympathies.''
*Popular Media
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:social networking logs and Social Networking]]


Literally, "pity type of feeling".
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:television V's and Television]]
*Transportation


mi lojban zei ciska
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:d|directions and driving]]
**[[jbocre: conversation guide:types of vehicles rains, Aeroplanes and Automobiles]] +


''I'm Lojbanically writing.''
== Disclaimer. ==


Literally, "Lojban type of writer".
If you're not digging the humour found throughout the guide, then you need to seriously reconsider your views on life. For those that dig it, please keep up the spirit in your contributions. Keeping a light-hearted sense of humour throughout the guide not only makes it fun to contribute, but fun to use. Keep in mind that any immature/lewd jokes are not welcome, and anything compromising the usefulness of the guide in favour of being funny is exactly that, compromising the usefulness of the guide. I hope I've set up a good example/template for further contributions and that the project spins wildly out of my control because so many people are interested in contributing. Thank you so very much to the people that have taken an interest already.


The following examples are intended to illustrate interactions of zei with other words of special grammatical effect, and hence may be pathological.
Some have pointed out that the lists do not have full definitions. Yes, I know this. We're linking back to JVS for the full definitions, notes, usage, etc. The list is meant simply to contain glosses and short, common phrases one might need during conversation. It is meant to look general, short, small, and basic as to not overwhelm or add visual noise to what is meant to be a fun and amusing project that should encourage study. Should the majority of the people using this decide or request for the definitions to be right on the page, we'll change things.


lu da zei fa'o li'u cu mutce cizra lujvo
== Notes to anybody that wishes to edit: ==


''"da type-of fa'o" is a very strange lujvo.''
'''ALL WORDS SHOULD LINK BACK TO [http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/ VS] ARTICLES'''


mi ciska me'o .ui zei nai bu
Pluses are put next to topics which have enough English vocab to get started. Most sections that have been started at all seem to have enough English vocab for now. Let's start filling in the blanks with basic lojban vocabulary. Anything for which there is no word needs to be discussed on the mailing list in the [http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/f08484aac17ee654 onversation Guide] topic.


''I wrote a frowny face.''
THIS IS IMPORTANT:


Literally "happy type-of not letter".
Please examine both [http://xahlee.org/lojban/lojban.html his] and [http://jwodder.freeshell.org/lojban/vlagri.html his] because they both use semantic categorisation, and we can probably just copy over a lot of it as we have yet to tackle the gimste.


lu zo bu zei sa si zo bu zei su li'u cu mupli
We also need to, somehow, transpose [[jbocre: Phrasebook he Lojban Phrasebook|Phrasebook he Lojban Phrasebook]] into the project, or link into it so it's readily available along with the guide.


''"bu type-of sa", I mean, "bu type-of su" is an example.''
Also, the pages are slowly slipping into '''disarray'''. It's not the most important thing in the world, but somebody please come up with a '''consistent''' and '''appealing''' format for each page, and then make everything look that way.


===  Proposed Definition of ''xi'' ===
== A Final Word ==


;'''xi''' (XI):  Subscript. Subscript indicator. Attaches the following number or letteral string as a subscript.  Can be used almost anywhere, but is mostly used on sumti and in mathematical expressions.
[[jbocre: ...or 'Yes, I know, nine other people have already told me that.'|...or 'Yes, I know, nine other people have already told me that.']]


** Keywords: subscript, subscript indicator.
It has been pointed out to me that [[jbocre: Terminology  terminology page|Terminology  terminology page]] exists, but I hardly find myself digging for the lojban word for the square root of negative one or how to say "triple-bypass heart surgery".  However, I do find myself trying to name various utensils in my kitchen, different dishes I prepare for dinner, the names of particular pieces of furniture, household items, and normal, plain, human words that stupid people like to use (like "pot" or "noodle" or "Screw it, lets just go out somewhere." and "I'd like a double-cheeseburger and a chocolate shake, please.").


===  Examples of ''xi'' Usage ===
That being said, any websites or lists that we can copy/plagiarise should be put in the above section along with the other "'''this'''" bits that link out to existing lists.
 
li xy. xi ci du li xy. xi pa su'i xy. xi re
 
''x sub three = x sub one plus x sub two''
 
la'e di'u xi re cu xamgu se morji mi
 
''The thing you mentioned two utterances ago is well remembered by me.''
 
==  Notes ==
 
* A usage convention for superscript would be *lovely*, but no ideas are coming to mind.
 
* Despite xi causing bizarre interactions in mekso, I honestly can't think of anything interesting to say about it.
 
==  Impact ==
 
* ba'e should be basically unchanged, except for clarification.
 
* zei structures are now a single word for purposes of following magic words.
 
* IMO, this is well worth having a defined precedence in all cases.
 
==  Proposed New cmavo ==
 
* Another member of ZEI with reverse-order modified-modifier semantics.
** The shepherd doesn't consider this terribly important, but it certainly would help match the rest of the language, which is very configurable.
 
** "broda zei co zei brode" has been suggested for this usage. Should I write that up as a usage convention?
 
{POLL(pollId=>15)}Nonce Connectives Poll{POLL}

Revision as of 16:46, 4 November 2013

Conversation Guide

This is (unofficially) the official(est) Conversation Guide to Lojban, otherwise known as {la selsnu gidva}. Right now, as you can see, we're still in the infancy stages of development, but please feel free to contribute. The guide can't grow without your blood, sweat and tears!

The purpose and thought behind this page.

The idea behind the 'conversation guide' is to create a listing of topics from 'home items' to 'business place' to 'sports' and so on. In each list can include subtopics such as 'kitchen and cooking' in 'home' and 'American Football' under 'sports'. There are several goals behind this idea:

  1. To encourage more conversation in Lojban by providing a comprehensive list of possible words and phrases that may come up or be needed when discussing a particular topic.
  1. To expand the vocabulary to necessary fields of discussion (as up until recently there was no listed/official word for 'kitchen', and there still exist many objects for which we have no names that are just as common).
  1. To provide a way to accomplish items one and two in a fun and entertaining way for everybody involved.
    • Anybody new to the language can search for a desired word and place a request in the appropriate list if one is not found.
    • Anybody branching out to more distant topics (such as music, programming, architecture, fashion, or popular media) can participate by expanding the vocabulary in their field of experience or interest.

A list of currently covered topics.

This is a basic list of broad topics which started with the proposal to the Lojban list and has since expanded drastically due to the grand enthusiasm of the Lojban community. Please feel free to contribute any topics, subtopics, words and word requests, and/or useful phrases.

Disclaimer.

If you're not digging the humour found throughout the guide, then you need to seriously reconsider your views on life. For those that dig it, please keep up the spirit in your contributions. Keeping a light-hearted sense of humour throughout the guide not only makes it fun to contribute, but fun to use. Keep in mind that any immature/lewd jokes are not welcome, and anything compromising the usefulness of the guide in favour of being funny is exactly that, compromising the usefulness of the guide. I hope I've set up a good example/template for further contributions and that the project spins wildly out of my control because so many people are interested in contributing. Thank you so very much to the people that have taken an interest already.

Some have pointed out that the lists do not have full definitions. Yes, I know this. We're linking back to JVS for the full definitions, notes, usage, etc. The list is meant simply to contain glosses and short, common phrases one might need during conversation. It is meant to look general, short, small, and basic as to not overwhelm or add visual noise to what is meant to be a fun and amusing project that should encourage study. Should the majority of the people using this decide or request for the definitions to be right on the page, we'll change things.

Notes to anybody that wishes to edit:

ALL WORDS SHOULD LINK BACK TO VS ARTICLES

Pluses are put next to topics which have enough English vocab to get started. Most sections that have been started at all seem to have enough English vocab for now. Let's start filling in the blanks with basic lojban vocabulary. Anything for which there is no word needs to be discussed on the mailing list in the onversation Guide topic.

THIS IS IMPORTANT:

Please examine both his and his because they both use semantic categorisation, and we can probably just copy over a lot of it as we have yet to tackle the gimste.

We also need to, somehow, transpose Phrasebook he Lojban Phrasebook into the project, or link into it so it's readily available along with the guide.

Also, the pages are slowly slipping into disarray. It's not the most important thing in the world, but somebody please come up with a consistent and appealing format for each page, and then make everything look that way.

A Final Word

...or 'Yes, I know, nine other people have already told me that.'

It has been pointed out to me that Terminology terminology page exists, but I hardly find myself digging for the lojban word for the square root of negative one or how to say "triple-bypass heart surgery". However, I do find myself trying to name various utensils in my kitchen, different dishes I prepare for dinner, the names of particular pieces of furniture, household items, and normal, plain, human words that stupid people like to use (like "pot" or "noodle" or "Screw it, lets just go out somewhere." and "I'd like a double-cheeseburger and a chocolate shake, please.").

That being said, any websites or lists that we can copy/plagiarise should be put in the above section along with the other "this" bits that link out to existing lists.

Retrieved from "https://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=conversation_guide&oldid=74646"