https://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=Zamenhof&feed=atom&action=historyZamenhof - Revision history2024-03-28T16:33:37ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.38.4https://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=Zamenhof&diff=108942&oldid=prevGleki at 12:31, 26 September 20142014-09-26T12:31:22Z<p></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 12:31, 26 September 2014</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''.i la Ludovik Lazar Zamenxof cu finti lo [[Esperanto|sperybau]] i puku LLZ jbena bu'u lo po'olska tutra poi pagbu lo rusko imperia gi'e se jibri lo ka kanla mikce gi'e jmive ca'o lo nanca poi 1859moi bi'o 1917moi</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''.i la Ludovik Lazar Zamenxof cu finti lo [[Esperanto|sperybau]] i puku LLZ jbena bu'u lo po'olska tutra poi pagbu lo rusko imperia gi'e se jibri lo ka kanla mikce gi'e jmive ca'o lo nanca poi 1859moi bi'o 1917moi<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick]] used "charmingly maldotco" to describe Zamenhof's style in writing [[Esperanto|Esperanto]]; of course, this is not a use <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''</del>within<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'' </del>Lojban yet.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick]] used "charmingly maldotco" to describe Zamenhof's style in writing [[Esperanto|Esperanto]]; of course, this is not a use <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><u></ins>within<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></u> </ins>Lojban yet.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Wasn't he a native Russian speaker? And didn't his <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">slavic </del>usage allow the ''itistoj'' to win the ''-ata/-ita'' debate?</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Wasn't he a native Russian speaker? And didn't his <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Slavic </ins>usage allow the ''itistoj'' to win the ''-ata/-ita'' debate?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Yes, and yes, but there's still plenty of German-inspired stuff in there (<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">versxajne </del>= wahrscheinlich; punctuation before subordinate clauses, etc. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">--</del>- more stylistic than grammatical.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">)</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Yes, and yes, but there's still plenty of German-inspired stuff in there (<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''verŝajne'' </ins>= <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''</ins>wahrscheinlich<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''</ins>; punctuation before subordinate clauses, etc. - more stylistic than grammatical<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">)</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>***<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''</del>punctuation before subordinate clauses<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''</del>: Can one really <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> </del>call this "German-inspired"<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">??</del>? Shouldn't it rather be called "non-English" - since (as far I'm really aware of) it's the way most European languages do it (of course Yiddish, but also Hungarian, Italian etc.). BTW, I guess I never shall understand the English system: can anyone explain it to me? ;-)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>***<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><u></ins>punctuation before subordinate clauses<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></u></ins>: Can one really call this "German-inspired"? Shouldn't it rather be called "non-English" - since (as far I'm really aware of) it's the way most European languages do it (of course Yiddish, but also Hungarian, Italian etc.). BTW, I guess I never shall understand the English system: can anyone explain it to me? ;-)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>**** You can tell that the subordinate clauses is coming up from the word that introduces it or the grammar around it. When speaking, you don't actually <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''</del>pause<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'' </del>before subordinate clauses (at least I don't). When I see those commas, it makes me stop unnecessarily: "I know, ........ that Esperanto is easy." Incidentally, I've never seen that use of commas in Hebrew. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-- [[Adam|Adam]]</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">**** [[Adam|Adam:]]</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*** Ludwik Lazarus Zamenhof (zamenxof) *Bialystok 15.12.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">185'''9''' </del>+Warsaw 14.4.1917 always was Polish (and of course Jewish), why should he have been a native <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''''</del>Russian<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''''' </del>speaker!! (Think he knew Russian like he spoke German, Yiddish, Hebrew etc.).</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*</ins>**** You can tell that the subordinate clauses is coming up from the word that introduces it or the grammar around it. When speaking, you don't actually <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><u></ins>pause<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></u> </ins>before subordinate clauses (at least I don't). When I see those commas, it makes me stop unnecessarily: "I know, ........ that Esperanto is easy." Incidentally, I've never seen that use of commas in Hebrew.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>**** *ahem* Zamenhof was a Litvak Jew, and as such culturally Russian. His first languages were Russian and Yiddish <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">--</del>- not Polish. His wife (Klara Silbernik) was from Warsaw, and his kids spoke Polish; but just 'cause you're from Poland doesn't mean Polish is your first language. (At least, it didn't before 1941.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">) </del>.i <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">lenu </del>la zamenxof cu tutrlitvaka xebro cu mukti <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">lenu </del>loi se natmrlietuva (toizoigy. ''Lithuanian'' gy.toi) cu ji'a xusra <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">lenu </del>la zamenxof. cu namtymintu ny.ly. .i mi pujeca se cfipu <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ledu</del>'u le se natmi be makau cu xabju le tutrlitrvaka po'u le ca stuna gugdrpolska</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*** Ludwik Lazarus Zamenhof (zamenxof) *Bialystok 15.12.<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">1859 </ins>+Warsaw 14.4.1917 always was Polish (and of course Jewish), why should he have been a native <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><u></ins>Russian<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></u> </ins>speaker!! (Think he knew Russian like he spoke German, Yiddish, Hebrew etc.).</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>****Here I quote a pretty interesting discussion on this issue: [[Zamenhof's "Dream" language|Zamenhof's "Dream" language]] <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">--mi'e .aulun.</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>**** *ahem* Zamenhof was a Litvak Jew, and as such culturally Russian. His first languages were Russian and Yiddish - not Polish. His wife (Klara Silbernik) was from Warsaw, and his kids spoke Polish; but just 'cause you're from Poland doesn't mean Polish is your first language. (At least, it didn't before 1941<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">)</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''</ins>.i <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">lo nu </ins>la zamenxof cu tutrlitvaka xebro cu mukti <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">lo nu </ins>loi se natmrlietuva<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''' </ins>(<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''</ins>toizoigy. ''Lithuanian'' gy.toi<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''</ins>)<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''' </ins>cu ji'a xusra <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">lo nu </ins>la zamenxof. cu namtymintu ny.ly. .i mi pujeca se cfipu <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">lodu</ins>'u le se natmi be makau cu xabju le tutrlitrvaka po'u le ca stuna gugdrpolska<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">****.aulun.:</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*</ins>**** Here I quote a pretty interesting discussion on this issue: [[Zamenhof's "Dream" language|Zamenhof's "Dream" language]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>{{See also|Esperanto and Hebrew}}</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>{{See also|Esperanto and Hebrew}}</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=Zamenhof&diff=102951&oldid=prevGleki at 12:13, 2 July 20142014-07-02T12:13:33Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>.i la <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ludovik. lazar. zamenxof </del>cu <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jectnrosia. tutrpolksa xebro kalmikce .</del>i jmive ca'o <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">la 1859nan. </del>bi'o <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">1917nan. .i finti le [[Esperanto|bangrnesperanto]]</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''</ins>.i la <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ludovik Lazar Zamenxof </ins>cu <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">finti lo [[Esperanto|sperybau]] </ins>i <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">puku LLZ jbena bu'u lo po'olska tutra poi pagbu lo rusko imperia gi'e se jibri lo ka kanla mikce gi'e </ins>jmive ca'o <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">lo nanca poi 1859moi </ins>bi'o <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">1917moi</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick]] used "charmingly maldotco" to describe Zamenhof's style in writing [[Esperanto|Esperanto]]; of course, this is not a use ''within'' Lojban yet.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick]] used "charmingly maldotco" to describe Zamenhof's style in writing [[Esperanto|Esperanto]]; of course, this is not a use ''within'' Lojban yet.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Wasn't he a native Russian speaker? And didn't his slavic usage allow the ''itistoj'' to win the ''-ata/-ita'' debate?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Wasn't he a native Russian speaker? And didn't his slavic usage allow the ''itistoj'' to win the ''-ata/-ita'' debate?</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=Zamenhof&diff=102938&oldid=prevGleki: Gleki moved page zamenhof to Zamenhof over a redirect without leaving a redirect2014-07-02T11:54:05Z<p>Gleki moved page <a href="/index.php?title=zamenhof&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="zamenhof (page does not exist)">zamenhof</a> to <a href="/papri/Zamenhof" title="Zamenhof">Zamenhof</a> over a redirect without leaving a redirect</p>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=Zamenhof&diff=100572&oldid=prevConversion script: Conversion script moved page Zamenhof to zamenhof: Converting page titles to lowercase2014-06-30T08:38:33Z<p>Conversion script moved page <a href="/papri/Zamenhof" title="Zamenhof">Zamenhof</a> to <a href="/index.php?title=zamenhof&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="zamenhof (page does not exist)">zamenhof</a>: Converting page titles to lowercase</p>
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</table>Conversion scripthttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=Zamenhof&diff=93201&oldid=prevGleki at 13:04, 28 March 20142014-03-28T13:04:16Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>.i la ludovik. lazar. zamenxof cu jectnrosia. tutrpolksa xebro kalmikce .i jmive ca'o la 1859nan. bi'o 1917nan. .i finti le [[Esperanto|bangrnesperanto]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>.i la ludovik. lazar. zamenxof cu jectnrosia. tutrpolksa xebro kalmikce .i jmive ca'o la 1859nan. bi'o 1917nan. .i finti le [[Esperanto|bangrnesperanto]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick]] used "charmingly maldotco" to describe Zamenhof's style in writing [[Esperanto|Esperanto]]; of course, this is not a use ''within'' Lojban yet.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick]] used "charmingly maldotco" to describe Zamenhof's style in writing [[Esperanto|Esperanto]]; of course, this is not a use ''within'' Lojban yet.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Wasn't he a native Russian speaker? And didn't his slavic usage allow the ''itistoj'' to win the ''-ata/-ita'' debate?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Wasn't he a native Russian speaker? And didn't his slavic usage allow the ''itistoj'' to win the ''-ata/-ita'' debate?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Yes, and yes, but there's still plenty of German-inspired stuff in there (versxajne = wahrscheinlich; punctuation before subordinate clauses, etc. --- more stylistic than grammatical.)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Yes, and yes, but there's still plenty of German-inspired stuff in there (versxajne = wahrscheinlich; punctuation before subordinate clauses, etc. --- more stylistic than grammatical.)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>***''punctuation before subordinate clauses'': Can one really call this "German-inspired"??? Shouldn't it rather be called "non-English" - since (as far I'm really aware of) it's the way most European languages do it (of course Yiddish, but also Hungarian, Italian etc.). BTW, I guess I never shall understand the English system: can anyone explain it to me? ;-)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>***''punctuation before subordinate clauses'': Can one really call this "German-inspired"??? Shouldn't it rather be called "non-English" - since (as far I'm really aware of) it's the way most European languages do it (of course Yiddish, but also Hungarian, Italian etc.). BTW, I guess I never shall understand the English system: can anyone explain it to me? ;-)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>**** You can tell that the subordinate clauses is coming up from the word that introduces it or the grammar around it. When speaking, you don't actually ''pause'' before subordinate clauses (at least I don't). When I see those commas, it makes me stop unnecessarily: "I know, ........ that Esperanto is easy." Incidentally, I've never seen that use of commas in Hebrew. -- [[Adam|Adam]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>**** You can tell that the subordinate clauses is coming up from the word that introduces it or the grammar around it. When speaking, you don't actually ''pause'' before subordinate clauses (at least I don't). When I see those commas, it makes me stop unnecessarily: "I know, ........ that Esperanto is easy." Incidentally, I've never seen that use of commas in Hebrew. -- [[Adam|Adam]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*** Ludwik Lazarus Zamenhof (zamenxof) *Bialystok 15.12.185'''9''' +Warsaw 14.4.1917 always was Polish (and of course Jewish), why should he have been a native '''''Russian''''' speaker!! (Think he knew Russian like he spoke German, Yiddish, Hebrew etc.).</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*** Ludwik Lazarus Zamenhof (zamenxof) *Bialystok 15.12.185'''9''' +Warsaw 14.4.1917 always was Polish (and of course Jewish), why should he have been a native '''''Russian''''' speaker!! (Think he knew Russian like he spoke German, Yiddish, Hebrew etc.).</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>**** *ahem* Zamenhof was a Litvak Jew, and as such culturally Russian. His first languages were Russian and Yiddish --- not Polish. His wife (Klara Silbernik) was from Warsaw, and his kids spoke Polish; but just 'cause you're from Poland doesn't mean Polish is your first language. (At least, it didn't before 1941.) .i lenu la zamenxof cu tutrlitvaka xebro cu mukti lenu loi se natmrlietuva (toizoigy. ''Lithuanian'' gy.toi) cu ji'a xusra lenu la zamenxof. cu namtymintu ny.ly. .i mi pujeca se cfipu ledu'u le se natmi be makau cu xabju le tutrlitrvaka po'u le ca stuna gugdrpolska</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>**** *ahem* Zamenhof was a Litvak Jew, and as such culturally Russian. His first languages were Russian and Yiddish --- not Polish. His wife (Klara Silbernik) was from Warsaw, and his kids spoke Polish; but just 'cause you're from Poland doesn't mean Polish is your first language. (At least, it didn't before 1941.) .i lenu la zamenxof cu tutrlitvaka xebro cu mukti lenu loi se natmrlietuva (toizoigy. ''Lithuanian'' gy.toi) cu ji'a xusra lenu la zamenxof. cu namtymintu ny.ly. .i mi pujeca se cfipu ledu'u le se natmi be makau cu xabju le tutrlitrvaka po'u le ca stuna gugdrpolska</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>****Here I quote a pretty interesting discussion on this issue: [[Zamenhof's "Dream" language|Zamenhof's "Dream" language]] --mi'e .aulun.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>****Here I quote a pretty interesting discussion on this issue: [[Zamenhof's "Dream" language|Zamenhof's "Dream" language]] --mi'e .aulun.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[Esperanto and Hebrew</del>|Esperanto and Hebrew<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">]]</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">{{See also</ins>|Esperanto and Hebrew<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">}}</ins></div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=Zamenhof&diff=90579&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: ([L-Z])" to "$1"2014-03-23T14:49:09Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: ([L-Z])" to "$1"</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:49, 23 March 2014</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>**** *ahem* Zamenhof was a Litvak Jew, and as such culturally Russian. His first languages were Russian and Yiddish --- not Polish. His wife (Klara Silbernik) was from Warsaw, and his kids spoke Polish; but just 'cause you're from Poland doesn't mean Polish is your first language. (At least, it didn't before 1941.) .i lenu la zamenxof cu tutrlitvaka xebro cu mukti lenu loi se natmrlietuva (toizoigy. ''Lithuanian'' gy.toi) cu ji'a xusra lenu la zamenxof. cu namtymintu ny.ly. .i mi pujeca se cfipu ledu'u le se natmi be makau cu xabju le tutrlitrvaka po'u le ca stuna gugdrpolska</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>**** *ahem* Zamenhof was a Litvak Jew, and as such culturally Russian. His first languages were Russian and Yiddish --- not Polish. His wife (Klara Silbernik) was from Warsaw, and his kids spoke Polish; but just 'cause you're from Poland doesn't mean Polish is your first language. (At least, it didn't before 1941.) .i lenu la zamenxof cu tutrlitvaka xebro cu mukti lenu loi se natmrlietuva (toizoigy. ''Lithuanian'' gy.toi) cu ji'a xusra lenu la zamenxof. cu namtymintu ny.ly. .i mi pujeca se cfipu ledu'u le se natmi be makau cu xabju le tutrlitrvaka po'u le ca stuna gugdrpolska</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>****Here I quote a pretty interesting discussion on this issue: [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Zamenhof's "Dream" language|Zamenhof's "Dream" language]] --mi'e .aulun.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>****Here I quote a pretty interesting discussion on this issue: [[Zamenhof's "Dream" language|Zamenhof's "Dream" language]] --mi'e .aulun.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Esperanto and Hebrew|Esperanto and Hebrew]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Esperanto and Hebrew|Esperanto and Hebrew]]</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=Zamenhof&diff=90283&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: ([A-K])" to "$1"2014-03-23T14:46:36Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: ([A-K])" to "$1"</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:46, 23 March 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1">Line 1:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>.i la ludovik. lazar. zamenxof cu jectnrosia. tutrpolksa xebro kalmikce .i jmive ca'o la 1859nan. bi'o 1917nan. .i finti le [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Esperanto|bangrnesperanto]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>.i la ludovik. lazar. zamenxof cu jectnrosia. tutrpolksa xebro kalmikce .i jmive ca'o la 1859nan. bi'o 1917nan. .i finti le [[Esperanto|bangrnesperanto]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick]] used "charmingly maldotco" to describe Zamenhof's style in writing [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Esperanto|Esperanto]]; of course, this is not a use ''within'' Lojban yet.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick]] used "charmingly maldotco" to describe Zamenhof's style in writing [[Esperanto|Esperanto]]; of course, this is not a use ''within'' Lojban yet.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Wasn't he a native Russian speaker? And didn't his slavic usage allow the ''itistoj'' to win the ''-ata/-ita'' debate?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Wasn't he a native Russian speaker? And didn't his slavic usage allow the ''itistoj'' to win the ''-ata/-ita'' debate?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
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<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 7:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>***''punctuation before subordinate clauses'': Can one really call this "German-inspired"??? Shouldn't it rather be called "non-English" - since (as far I'm really aware of) it's the way most European languages do it (of course Yiddish, but also Hungarian, Italian etc.). BTW, I guess I never shall understand the English system: can anyone explain it to me? ;-)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>***''punctuation before subordinate clauses'': Can one really call this "German-inspired"??? Shouldn't it rather be called "non-English" - since (as far I'm really aware of) it's the way most European languages do it (of course Yiddish, but also Hungarian, Italian etc.). BTW, I guess I never shall understand the English system: can anyone explain it to me? ;-)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>**** You can tell that the subordinate clauses is coming up from the word that introduces it or the grammar around it. When speaking, you don't actually ''pause'' before subordinate clauses (at least I don't). When I see those commas, it makes me stop unnecessarily: "I know, ........ that Esperanto is easy." Incidentally, I've never seen that use of commas in Hebrew. -- [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Adam|Adam]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>**** You can tell that the subordinate clauses is coming up from the word that introduces it or the grammar around it. When speaking, you don't actually ''pause'' before subordinate clauses (at least I don't). When I see those commas, it makes me stop unnecessarily: "I know, ........ that Esperanto is easy." Incidentally, I've never seen that use of commas in Hebrew. -- [[Adam|Adam]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*** Ludwik Lazarus Zamenhof (zamenxof) *Bialystok 15.12.185'''9''' +Warsaw 14.4.1917 always was Polish (and of course Jewish), why should he have been a native '''''Russian''''' speaker!! (Think he knew Russian like he spoke German, Yiddish, Hebrew etc.).</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*** Ludwik Lazarus Zamenhof (zamenxof) *Bialystok 15.12.185'''9''' +Warsaw 14.4.1917 always was Polish (and of course Jewish), why should he have been a native '''''Russian''''' speaker!! (Think he knew Russian like he spoke German, Yiddish, Hebrew etc.).</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l13">Line 13:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 13:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>****Here I quote a pretty interesting discussion on this issue: [[jbocre: Zamenhof's "Dream" language|Zamenhof's "Dream" language]] --mi'e .aulun.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>****Here I quote a pretty interesting discussion on this issue: [[jbocre: Zamenhof's "Dream" language|Zamenhof's "Dream" language]] --mi'e .aulun.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Esperanto and Hebrew|Esperanto and Hebrew]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Esperanto and Hebrew|Esperanto and Hebrew]]</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=Zamenhof&diff=89982&oldid=prevGleki: Gleki moved page jbocre: Zamenhof to Zamenhof without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: ([A-Z])" to "$1"2014-03-23T14:45:23Z<p>Gleki moved page <a href="/index.php?title=jbocre:_Zamenhof&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="jbocre: Zamenhof (page does not exist)">jbocre: Zamenhof</a> to <a href="/papri/Zamenhof" title="Zamenhof">Zamenhof</a> without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: ([A-Z])" to "$1"</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:45, 23 March 2014</td>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=Zamenhof&diff=76475&oldid=prevGleki at 17:20, 4 November 20132013-11-04T17:20:38Z<p></p>
<a href="https://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=Zamenhof&diff=76475&oldid=65901">Show changes</a>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=Zamenhof&diff=65901&oldid=prevGleki at 17:16, 4 November 20132013-11-04T17:16:24Z<p></p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div><br />
A short story by Hans Christian Andersen translated into Lojban by several people.<br />
<br />
Motivations:<br />
<br />
# To see and compare the different styles of Lojbanic writing<br />
<br />
# To give people a short text to practice their Lojban<br />
<br />
# To learn and have fun <br />
<br />
== The Princess and the Pea ==<br />
<br />
Once upon a time there was a prince who wanted to marry a princess; but she would have to be a real princess. He travelled all over the world to find one, but nowhere could he get what he wanted. There were princesses enough, but it was difficult to find out whether they were real ones. There was always something about them that was not as it should be. So he came home again and was sad, for he would have liked very much to have a real princess.<br />
<br />
One evening a terrible storm came on; there was thunder and lightning, and the rain poured down in torrents. Suddenly a knocking was heard at the city gate, and the old king went to open it.<br />
<br />
It was a princess standing out there in front of the gate. But, good gracious! what a sight the rain and the wind had made her look. The water ran down from her hair and clothes; it ran down into the toes of her shoes and out again at the heels. And yet she said that she was a real princess.<br />
<br />
Well, we'll soon find that out, thought the old queen. But she said nothing, went into the bed-room, took all the bedding off the bedstead, and laid a pea on the bottom; then she took twenty mattresses and laid them on the pea, and then twenty eider-down beds on top of the mattresses.<br />
<br />
On this the princess had to lie all night. In the morning she was asked how she had slept.<br />
<br />
"Oh, very badly!" said she. "I have scarcely closed my eyes all night. Heaven only knows what was in the bed, but I was lying on something hard, so that I am black and blue all over my body. It's horrible!"<br />
<br />
Now they knew that she was a real princess because she had felt the pea right through the twenty mattresses and the twenty eider-down beds.<br />
<br />
Nobody but a real princess could be as sensitive as that.<br />
<br />
So the prince took her for his wife, for now he knew that he had a real princess; and the pea was put in the museum, where it may still be seen, if no one has stolen it.<br />
<br />
There, that is a true story. <br />
<br />
=== lo ka'etruxli .e lo dembi (translation by zahlman) ===<br />
<br />
lo ka'etruxli .e lo dembi<br />
<br />
sei se finti la .xans kristian endrsyn. gi'e se fanva la .zanmla.<br />
<br />
ni'o ni'o no mo'o<br />
<br />
ni'o .i puzuki da poi ka'etrunanla goi ko'a zo'u da djica lonu spebi'o lo da'i ka'etruxli goi ko'e<br />
<br />
.i ku'i ko'a jai javni tu'a ko'e<br />
<br />
.i ko'a klama so'i lo terdi mokca tezu'e lonu zvafa'i ko'e .i ku'i uinai na snada<br />
<br />
.i (to so'i lo ka'etruxli cu zasti .i ku'i ko'a se nandu lonu jdice lo du'u ce'u mansa ko'a .i ko'a roroi facki lo cfila toi)<br />
<br />
.i seki'ubo ko'a xrukla lo zdani je badri lonu tolsnada<br />
<br />
ni'o .i paroi ca lo vanci ku banli vilti'a .i ji'abo lindi je lidysna .i ji'abo ba'e *mutce* carvi<br />
<br />
.i spaji tirna lo nu vrodarxi lo tcadu vrogai .i lo tolci'o trunau cu kargau lo vrogai<br />
<br />
.i ty viska ca'u lo vrogai ku lo ka'etruxli .i ue iiru'e uu ky tolmle ki'u tu'a lo carvi je brife tcima<br />
<br />
.i lo ky taxfu .e lo ky sedykre cu krasi pe'a lo djacu .i lo djacu cu nerkla je barkla lo ky cutci<br />
<br />
.i ku'i ky xusra lo du'u ky fatci ka'etruxli<br />
<br />
ni'o lo tolci'o truni'u cu kanpe lonu sutra djice<br />
<br />
.i na tavla .i klama lo ckaku'a .ije vimcu lo boxfo lo ckana .ije punji lo denbi lo ckana loldi<br />
<br />
.ije punji vono lo ranti matci ga'u lo denbi<br />
<br />
ni'o ky sipna ca lo vanci ga'u lo matci .i ca lo bavla'i cerni ku preti fo ky fe peikau lo ky nunsipna<br />
<br />
ni'o "lu .oisai li'u" - sei ky cusku<br />
<br />
.i "lu mi pu tolsursipna .i na djuno lo du'u makau nenri lo ckana .i ku'i mi pu cpana lo jdari .i ji'a mi cortu so'a lo xadni .i oisai" li'u<br />
<br />
ni'o seki'ubo lo tolci'o trunau .e lo tolci'o truni'u cu -krici si- djuno lonu ky fatci ka'etruxli poi mansa ko'a<br />
<br />
.i sa'e go'i -mu'i si- ki'u lonu ky pu ganse lo dembi poi cnita lo vono ranti matci<br />
<br />
ni'o ko'e - sei lo tarmi ke fatci ka'etruxli se'u - ba'e *po'o* cu ga'eka'e taiku<br />
<br />
ni'o seki'ubo ko'a cu spebi'o ky noi dunli ko'e .i lo dembi cu se muzga .i kakne lonu viska lo denbi vi lo muzga gi'o lo nu dy na se zerle'a<br />
<br />
ni'o xusra lo du'u lo go'i cu jetnu lisri<br />
<br />
=== lo noltrutì'u poị cpàna lo dèmbi (translation by [[jbocre: selpa'i|selpa'i]]) ===<br />
<br />
ni'o pu zu vu ku zàsti fa lo noltrubè'a poị djìca lo nu spèni lo noltrutì'u noị ku'i .eị jètnu noltrutì'u .i lo noltrubè'a cu lìtru bu'u pi ro lo tèrdi te zu'e lo nu tòlcri pa boị ty gi'e ku'i na snàda lo nu cpàcu bu'u da lo se djìca .i zàsti fa lo raụ noltrutì'u .i ku'i nàndu fa lo nu fàcki lo du'u xu kaụ jètnu noltrutì'u .i ty cu ro roị ckàji da poị na màpti lo nu .eị mo kaụ .i ja'e bo by cu xrùti lo zdàni gi'e bàdri .i ki'u bo mùtce lo ka djìca tu'a lo jètnu noltrutì'u<br />
<br />
ni'o ca pa vànci lo xlàtce vilbì'e cu jbibì'o .i zvàti fa lo nu lìndi joị lo nu lìdvru .i je càrvi fa lo bàrda ri'èrlaị pe lo djàcu .i ca bo sùksa fa lo nu se tìrna fa lo nu dàrxi lo tcàdu vrògaị .i je lo tolcì'o noltrùnaụ cu klàma gi'e kàrgaụ<br />
<br />
ni'o bu'u lo bàrtu ca'u lo vrògaị cu sànli fa lo noltrutì'u .i ku'i .u'e saị ma kaụ ty jvìnu ri'a lo càrvi jo'u lo brìfe .i lo djàcu cu cnìta mùvdu fi lo kèrfa .e lo se dàsni .i je cnìta mùvdu lo jìpno be lo cùtci gi'e di'a barmù'u lo cùtci trìxe .i ku'i lo noltrutì'u cu to'e ki'u naị cùsku lo se du'u ty jètnu noltrutì'u<br />
<br />
ni'o «lu ma'a ba zi fàcki la'e di'u —seị lo tolcì'o noltrunì'u cu pènsi— li'u» .i ku'i ny cùsku no da gi'e klàma lo ckàna kùmfa gi'e vìmcu ro lo ckàna bùkpu lo ckagrèku gi'e pùnji lo pa dèmbi lo lòldi .i je ba bo lèbna lo re no màtci gi'e pùnji my lo dèmbi gi'e ba bo pùnji lo re no pìmlu ckàna lo màtci<br />
<br />
ni'o lo di'u ckàna zo'u .e'i lo noltrutì'u cu cpàna ze'a lo nìcte .i ca lo cèrni ty te rètsku lo se du'u ma kaụ ty li'i sìpna<br />
<br />
ni'o «lu .oị xlàli mùtce —seị ty cùsku— .i mi pu ja'a ru'e ga'òrgaụ lo kànla ze'a lo mùlno nìcte .i na saị djùno lo du'u ma kaụ nènri lo ckàna .i ku'i mi pu cpàna da poị jdàri .i ja'e bo pi ro lo mi xàdni cu xèkri joị blànu .i xlàtce li'u»<br />
<br />
ni'o ca ku ro da djùno lo du'u jètnu noltrutì'u .i ki'u bo ty pu gànse lo dèmbi pa'o lo re no màtci jo'u lo re no pìmlu ckàna<br />
<br />
ni'o no da poị na jètnu noltrutì'u cu ka'e taị ràlci gànse<br />
<br />
ni'o ja'e bo lo noltrubè'a ty spèni .i ki'u bo ca djùno lo du'u by tòlcaụ lo jètnu noltrutì'u .i je lo dèmbi cu se sètca fi lo mùzga noị bu'u ke'a za'o ka'e se vìska va'o lo nu no da pu zerlè'a<br />
<br />
ni'o ca'e di'u jètnu lìsri <br />
<br />
=== lo truti'u jo'u lo dembi (translation by [[jbocre: latro'a|latro'a]]) ===<br />
<br />
sei la xans kristian endrsyn se finti <br />
<br />
sei la latro'a cu fanva<br />
<br />
ni'o puzukiku trube'a gi'e djica lo nu speni da poi je'a truti'u .i sisku fi lo barda gi'e ku'i na sispe'i lo jai se djica .i sispe'i so'i da poi truti'u vau .e no de poi je'a truti'u .i ro da poi truti'u gi'e se sispe'i zo'u de pe da na mapti .i klama lo zdani gi'e badri lo nu naku co'e da poi je'a truti'u<br />
<br />
ni'o ca lo nicte ku vilti'a gi'e lidni gi'e mutce carvi .i lo vorme cu jai sance .i lo laldo turni cu klama vy<br />
<br />
ni'o lo truti'u goi ty cu zvati .i ku'i ue sai lo carvi joi lo brife cu co'e ty .i lo stedu cu ve flecu lo djacu lo jamfu jo'u lo dertu .i ku'i xusra lo du'u je'a truti'u<br />
<br />
ni'o lo truspe cu peisku lu baziku birti li'u .i ku'i na cusku .i klama lo sipku'a .i vimcu ro zo'e lo ckana goi cy .i punji pa dembi goi dy boi cy .i punji loi re no matci goi my boi dy .i punji loi re no matci be lo pimlu my<br />
<br />
ni'o ty sipna fi'o ckana cy .i ca lo cerni cu preti lo du'u ma kau ni kufra lo nu sipna<br />
<br />
ni'o ty cusku lu lo cmalu sai i nandu fa lo nu lo kanla cu ganlo po'o vau ue .i mi vreta lo jdari sai .u'e cai .i se ri'a bo ro zo'e te cagna mi da poi xekri gi'a blanu .i xlali sai li'u<br />
<br />
ni'o cpacu lo du'u je'a truti'u ku lo du'u ganse zo'ei lo dembi va'o tu'a loi vo no matci .i lo nu je'a truti'u cu sarcu lo te go'i<br />
<br />
ni'o lo trube'a cu speni mu'i lo nu djuno lo du'u ty je'a truti'u .i setca lo dembi lo muzga noi nau la'a ki zvati ke'a .i ku'i lo nu pu lebna cu cumki<br />
<br />
ni'o jetnu<br />
<br />
=== le nolraixli nega'u le dembi (translation by Colin Fine 1993) ===<br />
<br />
lu le nolraixli nega'u le dembi li'u<br />
<br />
cmene di'e noi se finti<br />
<br />
la xans. krIstian. Andrsn<br />
<br />
.itu'e<br />
<br />
tu'e<br />
<br />
lisri le nolrainanla goi ko'a .i ko'a djica lo nolraixli .i ri mulno<br />
<br />
beloka nolraixli be'o gi'o se zanru ko'a .isemu'ibo ko'a fe'eroroi litru<br />
<br />
gi'e sisku pa go'i .iku'i roroi nabmi .i sa'e ge lo nolraixli cu<br />
<br />
raumei ju'o gi loniri nolraixli ku ko'a na se birti .uu .i roroiku<br />
<br />
le no'e drani vau .i ko'a ki'u seizdakla gi'e badri lenu na'epu'i cpacu<br />
<br />
lo nolraixli mulno<br />
<br />
ni'o pa vanci cu ki jaica ke selte'a viltcima .i lindi joi savru joi<br />
<br />
carvi joi camcilce .i zo'e darxi le ta'uvro .ile so'irnanca nolraitru<br />
<br />
ki'u minde lenu le vorme cu karbi'o .i le bartu cu nolraixli<br />
<br />
.i ri selkecmlu .uuse'inai ri'a tu'a lo carvi .ebo lo xlali viltcima<br />
<br />
.i mo'ini'a flecu lo djacu vi le kerfa .e le taxfu .i flecu ji'a pa'o<br />
<br />
le cutci file cucti'e le cucyzbi tosa'a pamoi pinka toi .i cusku<br />
<br />
fara ledu'u ra nolraixli mulno<br />
<br />
ni'o lu .ue .i cipra .ai li'u se sezycu'u le so'irnanca truspe goi fo'e .ije<br />
<br />
ri bacru noda ku'i gi'e klama le sipku'a gi'e vimcu role ckabukpu<br />
<br />
gi'e punji le pa dembi le ckazbe .ijebabo fo'e cpacu reno vresaikicne<br />
<br />
gi'e cpana punji ri le dembi .ipa'aku reno datkypi'u gacykicne co'a<br />
<br />
cpana le sairkicne .i rogo'i cu se vreta le nolraixli goi fo'a ca'o le nicte<br />
<br />
ni'o co'i le cerni cu preti fofo'a feleli'i fo'a capu sipna ge'ekau<br />
<br />
.i lu .oicairo'o seisa'a selcu'u befo'a .i mi su'eso'uroi .uu ganga'i<br />
<br />
le kanla ca'o piro le nicte .i ma? za'anai pausai nenri le ckana<br />
<br />
.i mi puca'o vreta le raktu jdari .i piro lemi xadni ri'a bunre joi blanu<br />
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.i to'e zdile .oisai li'u<br />
<br />
.i seni'ibo co'i djuno ledu'u fo'a nolraixli je'a mulno ki'u lenu fo'a fi le<br />
<br />
reno sairkicne kujo'u le reno gacykicne cu ganse fele dembi .i lo ckaji be<br />
<br />
loka ganse du'ila'edi'u cu nolraixli mulno ju'o<br />
<br />
ni'o le nolrainanla goi ko'a co'a speni fo'a .i ko'a seki'u djuno<br />
<br />
ledu'u vo'a kansa le mulno beloka nolraixli .i le dembi ba se punji<br />
<br />
fi la larkumfa tosa'a remoi pinka toi .i caji'a go'i .ijo noda capu<br />
<br />
vimcu .iacu'i<br />
<br />
tu'u<br />
<br />
ni'o di'u jetnu lisri .uo .ui<br />
<br />
tu'u<br />
<br />
ni'oni'o di'e pinka<br />
<br />
.i pamai le lujvo po'u zo cucyzbi cu satci te fanva fezoidy. Naesen paa<br />
<br />
Skoen dy. .i mi nelci ledi'u bangrdanska tanru<br />
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.i remai tu'e la larkumfa po'u la'o dy. Kunstkammeret dy. cu ga'orbi'o<br />
<br />
cale nanca beli pabirepa gi'eseri'abo ca'a teke carmi<br />
<br />
morji caze'u le lisri .i le'i ca'a jmaji noi selzda le to'ercitno ke nolraitru<br />
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ckuso'u dinju<br />
<br />
cu selcmi so'i vrici nemu'u lo prucedra lisri kuce lo nairske lisri kuce lo<br />
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rarske cizra<br />
<br />
tu'u<br />
<br />
''Source: [http://nuzban.wiw.org/archive/9305/msg00016.html n old mailing list post] (thanks to [[User:xorxes|xorxes]] for making me aware of it)''<br />
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=== la'e lo noltruti'u joi lo dembi (translation by [[jbocre: la t|tsani]]) ===<br />
<br />
sei la tsani cu fanva be lo me la. xans .xristian .anderson.<br />
<br />
ni'o puzuku ca da lo bi'u noltrube'a cu djica lo nu binxo co speni de poi noltruti'u .i ku'i .ei ja'a je'a noltruti'u .i lo bersa cu litru be lo munje ku co sisku .i ku'i facki fi noda poi jai seldji .i li'a by. facki fi so'i lo noltruti'u .i ku'i se nandu lo ka junbi'o lo du'u xukau ja'a je'a noltruti'u .i ro da poi ge noltruti'u gi jai se facki by zo'u de pe da cizra .i ja'o by zdakla za'ure'u gi'e badri .iki'ubo by. carmi co gleki da'i lo nu facki fi lo jai jetnu<br />
<br />
ni'o ca pa da poi vanci zo'u carmi co vlile tcima .i lindi .ije krixa co tsani .ije lo rirxe cu carvi .i ue da sance lo nu darxi lo tcadu vorme .isemu'ibo lo nolraitrunau cu klama co kargau<br />
<br />
ni'o noltruti'u co sanli ca'u lo vorme .i ku'i uesai ty ja'a se kecti co carmi co jai se rinka lo nu carvi gi'e brife .i lo djacu cu rinci lo kerfa .e lo se dasni .i go'i rirxe fo lo jamfu degji pagbu be lo ctuci .eseri'abo lo cutci trixe .i ku'i ty cusku lo se du'u ja'a je'a noltruti'u<br />
<br />
ni'o ja'o facki djica sei lo nolraitruni'u cu pensi .i ku'i ri noda cusku .ije klama lo sipku'a gi'etezu'ebo vimcu ro lo gacri lo ckana .i punji pa da poi dembi ku'o ri gi'ece'o punji fi lo dembi fe re no lo matci .ije punji fi lo jai jalge fe ja'o re no lo ranti traji pimlu ckana<br />
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ni'o lo bi'unai noltruti'u cu sipna co vreta .ei lo jai jalge ze'a lo nicte .i ca lo cerni pe baku ty ve preti lo du'u makau ty li'i sipna<br />
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ni'o lu lo xlali sai li'u se cusku ty .i lu lo nu lo kanla ba'e ze'i ganlo cu tolcafne .i lo me la tsani moi ku po'o djuno lo du'u makau nenri lo ckana .ibo ku'i mi sipna co vreta da poi jdari .ija'ebo mi simlu co carmi co se darxi so'aroife'e vau .oisai li'u<br />
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ni'o co'a ja'o djuno lo du'u ja'aku ty. je'a noltrutri'u .iki'ubo ty ganse lo ka vreta lo dembi fi'o ji'a tolklina jai rinka loi ro lo re no matci ku ku joi loi ro lo re no ranti traji pimlu ckana .i no da poi na'e ke je'a noltruti'u ja'aku cu dunli da'i fi lo ka frili co ganse<br />
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ni'oja'ebo lo noltrube'a cu speni be ty. jdice .iki'ubo ja'a je'a noltruti'u .i si'a lo dembi cu jai se zukte co co'a se muzga .i ca lo cabdei ku ji'a bu'u viska ka'eku .ijonai da ba'o jai zekri co lebna<br />
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ni'o ja'o sai ja'a lisri co jetnu<br />
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=== lo nolbalxli ku jo'u lo dembi (translation by gejyspa) ===<br />
<br />
ni'o <br />
<br />
puzukiku lo bersa be lo nolraitru be'o goi ko'i cu djica lo nu speni lo voi nolba'i ku'o nixli .i ku'i ri ja'i nolbalxli je'u e'i .i litru pi ro lo terdi tezu'e lo nu sisku tu'a lo go'i .i ku'i tu'i noda ko'i kakne lo nu facki fi lo se djica .i le nolbalxli cu zvati .i ku'i nandu fa lo nu facki lo du'u xukau lo go'i cu je'u nolbalxli .i ro lo te facki cu se cfila su'o da noi na nolba'i .i ja'ebo ko'i xrukla lo zdani gi'e badri ri'a lo nu ko'i mutce djica tu'a lo jetnu nolbalxli<br />
<br />
ni'o<br />
<br />
ca lo vanci ku carmi lidvilti'a gi'e lidvru gi'e lindi gi'e kasyvilfle jaurcarvi .i spaji vrodarxi lo vrogai be fi lo tcadu .i le tolci'o nolraitru goi fo'i cu klama tezu'e lo nu spuda lo nu go'i to'i xu jetnu .i no lo jai bandu cu gunka le tcadu toi<br />
<br />
ni'o<br />
<br />
le nolbalxli cu sanli ca'u le vrogai .i ku'i a'unaisai lo go'i cu simlu lo ka rigni keiku gau lo brife kujo'u lo carvi .i loi djacu cu mo'i ni'a se flecu fo lo kerfa be ny .e lo taxfu be ny .i mo'i zo'i go'i to'i po'i lo'i so'i do'i fo'i o'i ro'i ko'i co'i setese smasku toi fi lo craji'o be lo cutci po ny gi'e fe'e za'o flecu fi lo bartu be lo cucti'e .i ku'i ny cu xusra lo du'u vo'a jetnu nolbalxli<br />
<br />
ni'o <br />
<br />
lu .ianai mi bazi facki fi lo jei go'i li'u se peisku le tolci'o noltruni'u .i ku'i ri nalsmasku noda gi'e klama le ckaku'a gi'e vimcu ro le selcka lo ckana gi'e punji pa dembi le ckaloi .ibabo lo go'i cu punji nu'i ge reno matci lo dembi nu'u gi reno datkypi'u ckana ra <br />
<br />
ni'o<br />
<br />
le ckana darxi le nolbalxli cu se vreta baiku ze'e lo nicte .i ca lo cerni ny te reisku lo se du'u ny mokau sipna<br />
<br />
ni'o<br />
<br />
lu ga'inai .oiro'o mutce nalkufra li'u se cusku ny .i lu mi ji'inoroi ga'orgau lo kanla ze'e le nicte .i paunai ma djuno lo du'u makau cu nenri le ckana .iku'i mi vreta lo jdari .i ja'e bo piro lo xadni be mi cu se xrani tai lo pe'a xekri joi blanu .i selmalmanci oicai li'u go'i<br />
<br />
ni'o<br />
<br />
ni'i lo du'u go'i kei djuno lo du'u ny cu jetnu nolbalxli kei fo lo du'u ny ganse pa dembi poi cnita reno matci kujo'u reno datkypu'i ckana<br />
<br />
ni'o <br />
<br />
lo jetnu po'o nolbalxli cu ckaji lo ka gaska'e be du'i le selcipra<br />
<br />
ni'o<br />
<br />
lo bersa be lo nolraitru cu speni ru ki'u lo nu ko'i djuno lo du'u ko'i pu facki fi lo jetnu nolbalxli .ije le dembi gauku cu se stuzi lo muzga noi vo'a kakne lo nu se viska bu'u ke'a va'o lo nu vo'a no da pu se zerle'a <br />
<br />
=== le noltruti'u jo'u le dembi (translation by la klaku) ===<br />
<br />
_ipuzuvuki da noltrube’a gi'e djica lonu speni lo noltruti’u cei brodi poi drani brodi _i lo go’i cu litru piro le terdi tezu’e lonu zvafa’i _iku’i noda te zvafa’i le se djica uonaidai _i rau da noltruti’u _iku’i nandu fa lonu facki lodu’u xukau drani _i ro rau brodi cu ckaji lo na'e mapti _imu’ibo le noltrube’a cu xrukla le ri zdani gi’e badri loza’i djica sai lo da’i nu speni lo drani brodi<br />
<br />
_i ca lo vanci ku co’a vlile brife iidai fi’o kansa lo lindi e lo lidypo’a _i flecu lo carvi _i co’a ue ku snada’i lo vorme be fo lo tcadu _imu’ibo le tolci’o noltrunau cu jai ka’a kargau<br />
<br />
_i brodi fa le zvati be lo bartu be le vorme _i o’anaidai lo se viska po'u le brodi va’o tu’a le carvi joi brife vau ue _i lo djacu cu flecu fo le taxfu jo’u lo kerfa fi le crane be le cutci fi’o te cliva le cucti’e _i va’o zo’e le brodi cu xusra lodu’u ba’e drani i’enai!<br />
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_i du’u ba zi facki kei lo pensi be le tolci’o truspe _iku’i ri cusku noda gi’e gasnu lonu klama le ckaku’a kei ce’o nu lubgau le ckana le boxfo kei ce’o nu punji lo dembi lo ckana kei ce’o nu punji fi lo dembi fe reno u’esai bukcka ku ce’o reno cibnmolisima pimlu sipygai<br />
<br />
_i le brodi cu cpana eidai le di’u se zbasu _i ca le cerni le truspe cu terpreti losedu’u makau ni sipna pluka<br />
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_i lu oi tcexlali uuse’i! (sei le brodi cu cusku) _i mi no’e ga’orgau le mi kanla ze’u ro le nicte vau a’enai! _i na’eka’e djuno makau poi se ckana _iku'i mi se cpana lo jadri ja’e lonu mi ca’o xekri je blanu vau uinai oisai! li’u<br />
<br />
_i ba lo di’u cusku cu djuno lodu’u ja’a kau drani brodi kei ta’i loli’i ganse le dembi fi’o julne reno bukcka ku joi reno cibnmolisima pimlu sipygai<br />
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_i no da poi na drani brodi cu ka’e tai ralci!<br />
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_ija’ebo le noltrube’a cu spegau le brodi mu’i lodu’u jai du’o drani brodi _iji’a le dembi cu se muzga ja’e lonu ca’o catlu va’o lonu da'i no da zerle’a ri<br />
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_i uo rodi’u drani lisri<br />
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== Section for anything that isn't a translation ==<br />
<br />
Note: If somebody knows how to give this page a better layout, maybe using tables, then please feel free to make adjustments. However, don't change anyone else's translations at all. Personally, I'd like to be able to have indents (the tiki removes spaces automatically) and specify the width of the text. If anybody knows how to do this, please let me know. --[[jbocre: selpa'i|selpa'i]]</div>Gleki