User:.kreig.daniyl.: Difference between revisions

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;''ja'a cai'': -- "very", "very true", "a long way from being false", "the world would have to change a lot for this to be false"
I am maintaining my page in both Lojban and English, so if I translate your comment in a manner that you feel is a bad translation, feel free to change it. They are your words.


;''ja'a ru'e'': -- "slightly", "barely", "close to being false", "the world would have to change only a little for this to be false"
'''mi sidju fi le mi papri pe'a bau la lojban. .e le glico .ija'e ganai mi fanva le do se cusku fu da poi do na pensi xamgu xe fanva gi .e'a bai do binxo .i le valsi cu du le do valsi'''


;''na cai'': -- "not at all", "a long way from being true", "the world would have to change a lot for this to be true"
;:''Shouldn't that be "le valsi cu du le do valsi"? The way it is, [[jbofi'e|jbofi'e]] groups it as "(le (valsi du] (le do valsi)", while with the cu, I get "(le valsi) cu �du� (le do valsi)", which makes more sense to me. (And it can't parse the second sentence ".ija'e ... do binxo"; it did after deleting "ganai" and "gi" and "binxo", though, if that helps you find the problem.) --[[User:filip|la .filip.]]''


;''na ru'e'': -- "almost", "close to being true", "the world would have to change only a little for this to be true"
I don't use jbofi'e very often, but I had meant it as ''Therefore, if... then (.e'a) caused-by-you it becomes (something)''. As for the cu, you are absolutely right. I have added it.


''cu'i'' and ''sai'' would give intermediate degrees on the scale.
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I am better known in English as Craig Daniel. I don't know what people would find interesting to read on this page, so ask below.
 
mi se cmene zoigy. Craig Daniel gy. bau le glico .i mi na djuno fi ko'a goi le datni poi cinri jpobre vi ija'e ko cpedu le datni ni'a
 
I currently have IP address 209.42.200.90. This changes, but rarely.
 
I use PGP; my public key ID number is 0x22C68020
 
ni'o mi ca se skami judri zoiny. renosopi'evorepi'erenonopi'esono ny. [[goi'a|goi'a]] ko'a la .ibupyp. .i ti drata binxo .iku'i lenu go'i cu rirci
 
.i mi pilno la pygypyp. .ije te nacycme mi zoiny. noxyreregaixabinoreno ny.
 
''.e'u pilno zo ''pi'e'' seba'i zo ''pi'' lenu cusku le skami judri .i zo pi ve cusku lo saclu namcu .iku'i lo skami judri na namcu'' .iku'i zo pi'e ve cusku le djedi .e le temci .i zo pi ve cusku le denpabu secu'u le namcu .i ko'a cu namcu .i mi ca pilno zoily. pibu ly. noi mintu le denpabu vi .i xu ti do se gleki
 
;:''Shouldn't that ".e'u pilno zo..." read ".e'u '''ko''' pilno zo..." instead? Based on [[Rant: e'o and e'u are not commands]] --pne''
 
If you interpret it as a suggestion, then no. If it is a command, then yes. I do not know how the original poster intended it, but the lojban is theirs and the english below is mine.
 
''Try using'' pi'e '' instead of ''pi ''for expressing computer adresses.'' pi ''is for expressing numbers, but computer addresses are not numbers.'' But pi'e is for expressing dates or times, while pi is a period while discussing numbers. 209.42.200.90 is a string of numerals. I am now using 'pibu,' which is the same as the period symbol here. Does that appease you?


--[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]
...IP addresses are numbers. In fact, 209.42.200.98 corresponds to 3509241954. They're simply represented in base-256 as a [[4-tuple]] of base-10 numbers. (Which is significantly easier to remember!) That, actually, makes ''pi'e'' correct. --[[Jay Kominek|Jay]]


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''mu'onai le skami judri befi la .ibupyp. goi ko'e cu nacmu .i ra'unai, ko'a dunli li cimunosorevopasomuvo .i ko'e cu cusku ju'u li remuxa ci'e le vonpoi be namcu ci'e li dau .ije lenu go'i cu frili morji .i bai lenu go'a zo pi'e cu drani .i mi'e [[User:Jay Kominek|.jez.]]''


According to [http://lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter19.html#e6d12 hapter 19], you may subscript ja'a to indicate fuzzy
I have now changed it to pi'e.


truth values. So an alternative to the above would be subscripting
''.i bai mi puzi binxo zo pi'e''


with subjective PA cmavo.  ''ja'a xi rau'' and the like. --mi'e [[jbocre: .djorden.|.djorden.]]
Despite the similar translation of ''Daniel'', I am unrelated to [[lidaniyl.|lidaniyl.]]


* ''ja'a xi'' is certainly the approved method for indicating fuzzy truth values on the scale between True and False -- presumably ''ja'a xi (?pi) ro'' and ''ja'a xi (?pi) no'', with fractions of ro in between. So perhaps ''ja'a xi so'i'' might mean "very". But this would constitute a new Proposed Interpretive Convention, not an established one. --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]
''ri'anai le mintu lerfykaibapli pe zoigy. Daniel gy. ku mi na ckini la [[lidaniyl.|lidaniyl.]]''


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The conventions proposed here are incompatible with those proposed under [[jbocre: Three-value logic|Three-value logic]]. My sense is that we need short and easy ways to say "very", "fairly", etc. -- just see how frequent degree words are in English & other natlangs -- and that that need is so pressing that it powerfully favours the conventions described above. --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]
Ask questions here.


* ''ja'a xi piso'a?''
ni'o datni cpedu vi
** ''ja'a xi pi so'a'' means "falsish", or at least somewhere on the scale of "sort of", between truth and falsity. JAhA + CAI is for things that are true or that are false. --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]


* We have no such need, as it has already been satisfied.  As you indicated on the [[jbocre: va'e|va'e]] page (which is incidently another way to do those things easily), all of them can be approximated with tanru using brivla like "dukse" and "mutce".  [[jbocre: va'e|va'e]] is the most general way to express degree, but "du'eva'e" is actually longer than just saying "dukse". --mi'e [[jbocre: .djorden.|.djorden.]]
Any strange pets? Weasels, peacocks?
** I'm not sure who this is addressed to (I didn't say anything about tanru on the [[jbocre: va'e|va'e]] page). ''Va'e'' is more longwinded (but less crude) than JAhA+CAI, and it too is subject to Proposed Interpretive Conventions, so does not lack the vice of being innovative. Also, it is not clear to me what the exact conventions are for rendering with ''va'e'' the equivalents of JAhA+CAI and JAhA+XI. As for the use of tanru, these may satisfy some users, but they don't solve the problem of how to say very common and basic things succinctly and without vagueness. --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]


*** I suspect it was addressed to me, as it was me who wrote about ''dukse'' and ''mutce'' on the [[jbocre: va'e|va'e]] page, but I did not write the ''ja'a xi piso'a?'' line! BTW, I have been using ''ja'asai'', ''ja'aru'e'' and ''nasai'' for some time (plenty of times in the Alice translation, for example). I think I haven't used ''naru'e'' enough yet, but I should. --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]]
''No, just Shetland Sheepdogs. I did have an anole once, though, but that was years ago.''
 
xu do ponse le cizra danlu .i le mlatykai ratcu .a le blanu je kanlykai cipre xu se go'i
 
''.i na di'u .i mi ponse le cetland. lange'u .iu .i mi pu ponse le  resprnoli .iku'i puzu go'i''


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John Cowan writes on [[jbocre: Jboske|Jboske]]:
.i ga do'o ti po'u le canlu ku lenu datni cpedu na cu pilno gi mi te lojbo selcinmo pemci vi
 
If you all won't use this space to ask questions, then I will write Lojban attitudinal poetry here.
 
.a'o'e.iinaicai


;:''CAI by itself (not following UI) indicates ge'e + CAI, expressing the intensity of an unspecified emotion. CAI isn't just any old scale, it's an emotional/attitudinal scale.''
.iusai.i'idai


Xod replied:
.iinai.i'icai


;:''In usage it seems to be used the way And suggests; to modify the strength of the previous word, as opposed to the emotion of the speaker. "If you want ge'e..."''
.a'o'e.i'i.iinai
 
.a'o'e.e'u
 
.e'u.e'o
 
.e'o.a'o'e
 
.e'o.e'u
 
.a'ocai.ii
 
.e'o.e'u
 
.e'osai
 
.ui.ua.ue.ui
 
.ue.ui.uesai
 
.ui.ue.uisai
 
.o'asai.ui
 
.uo
 
No translations. Lojban poetry doesn't translate well; attitudinal poems certainly do not.
 
.i noda xe fanva .i le lojbo pemci na xamgu se fanva .i le selcinmo pemci go'i [[xi'i3 i'i]] pa
 
* ''xi'i pa'' is ''ju'o''.
*''zoigy. ''With 100 percent certainty'' gy. du zoigy. ''I am certain'' gy.''
 
** No, ju'o expresses a feeling, of certainty, while xi'i pa expresses that the bridi is completely true true. ''na go'i .i zo ju'o cmavo le selcinmo no'u le se birti ku .iku'i lo'u xi'i pa le'u cusku lenu se rairjetnu le bridi''
 
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Recent feelings on use of the jboste, wiki, and other fora: Having screwed up big time this morning (11/27/01), I will never again respond to anything I feel to be irrelevant to lojban and which do not grow out of relevant things. Nor will I respond to anything I feel is inflammatory. While I may strongly disagree with the posting of such things, or may just want the other guy's opinion not to be the only one heard, my right to free speech comes with the responsibility to use it well. I regret my comments of this morning, and while I cannot unsay them I can pledge never to do it again. I am sorry
 
.i mi cinmo de'e fi lenu pilno le jboste .e la .uikik. .e drata ve cusku
 
ni'o ri'a lenu mi maltavla de'i le cabde no'u renonopa pi'e reze pi'e fei ku ku mi ba spuda noda poi simlu leka na lojbo ku mi joi se spuda fi node poi lojbo .i mi go'i nodi poi simlu leka mabla ku mi .i mu'inai lenu mi pensi lenu ko'e goi da .e de .e di se cusku cu palci ku .a lenu mi djica lenu ko'i goi da poi se cusku mi ku se cusku ku ku lenu mi lenu cusku roda ku vlipa ku gasnu lenu mi nitcu xamgu pilno ri .i mi na gleki le mi se cusku pe le cabdei cerni .i ri'anai lenu mi ra na ka'e nalpurslecusku ku mi lenu na relroi cusku ku ka'e nupre .i .uucai
 
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... to which [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]] add that JAhA+CAI has actually seen usage. But given what John says, I am inclined not to support JAhA+CAI and seek some other suitably convenient and unvague way to do "very" etc.
[mailto:ragnarok@pobox.com -mail me] ''suggesting "Hey You! E-mail me!".'' No. I will not be upset if nobody does e-mail me.


* ''So, even though it's seen usage, you won't "support" it? --[[User:xod|xod]]''
[mailto:ragnarok@pobox.com skami mrilu mi] ''stidi lu ko skami mrilu mi li'u'' .i na go'i .i mi na ba tolgei bai lenu noda mi ca'a skami mrilu
* Well, there's plenty of usage that I consider 'bad'. To take a controversial example, {da'i} has quite a clear meaning in established usage, but I think that it is 'incorrect'. So the simple fact that it has seen usage doesn't weigh heavily in its favour, in my judgement. But as I've said on Jboske, if there is a quasi-official ruling that CAI not following a UI modifies an implicit ''ge'e'', then the reasons for going against that ruling must be very compelling, and usage alone is not enough. As for what would constitute compellingness, something being badly wrong with the official ruling would count as compelling, but that does not apply in this case. I guess that if enough Lojbanists known for their probity (i.e. most people other than me) were in favour, then my reservations would be assuaged. --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]

Latest revision as of 17:25, 27 June 2015

I am maintaining my page in both Lojban and English, so if I translate your comment in a manner that you feel is a bad translation, feel free to change it. They are your words.

mi sidju fi le mi papri pe'a bau la lojban. .e le glico .ija'e ganai mi fanva le do se cusku fu da poi do na pensi xamgu xe fanva gi .e'a bai do binxo .i le valsi cu du le do valsi

Shouldn't that be "le valsi cu du le do valsi"? The way it is, jbofi'e groups it as "(le (valsi du] (le do valsi)", while with the cu, I get "(le valsi) cu �du� (le do valsi)", which makes more sense to me. (And it can't parse the second sentence ".ija'e ... do binxo"; it did after deleting "ganai" and "gi" and "binxo", though, if that helps you find the problem.) --la .filip.

I don't use jbofi'e very often, but I had meant it as Therefore, if... then (.e'a) caused-by-you it becomes (something). As for the cu, you are absolutely right. I have added it.


I am better known in English as Craig Daniel. I don't know what people would find interesting to read on this page, so ask below.

mi se cmene zoigy. Craig Daniel gy. bau le glico .i mi na djuno fi ko'a goi le datni poi cinri jpobre vi ija'e ko cpedu le datni ni'a

I currently have IP address 209.42.200.90. This changes, but rarely.

I use PGP; my public key ID number is 0x22C68020

ni'o mi ca se skami judri zoiny. renosopi'evorepi'erenonopi'esono ny. goi'a ko'a la .ibupyp. .i ti drata binxo .iku'i lenu go'i cu rirci

.i mi pilno la pygypyp. .ije te nacycme mi zoiny. noxyreregaixabinoreno ny.

.e'u pilno zo pi'e seba'i zo pi lenu cusku le skami judri .i zo pi ve cusku lo saclu namcu .iku'i lo skami judri na namcu .iku'i zo pi'e ve cusku le djedi .e le temci .i zo pi ve cusku le denpabu secu'u le namcu .i ko'a cu namcu .i mi ca pilno zoily. pibu ly. noi mintu le denpabu vi .i xu ti do se gleki

Shouldn't that ".e'u pilno zo..." read ".e'u ko pilno zo..." instead? Based on Rant: e'o and e'u are not commands --pne

If you interpret it as a suggestion, then no. If it is a command, then yes. I do not know how the original poster intended it, but the lojban is theirs and the english below is mine.

Try using pi'e instead of pi for expressing computer adresses. pi is for expressing numbers, but computer addresses are not numbers. But pi'e is for expressing dates or times, while pi is a period while discussing numbers. 209.42.200.90 is a string of numerals. I am now using 'pibu,' which is the same as the period symbol here. Does that appease you?

...IP addresses are numbers. In fact, 209.42.200.98 corresponds to 3509241954. They're simply represented in base-256 as a 4-tuple of base-10 numbers. (Which is significantly easier to remember!) That, actually, makes pi'e correct. --Jay

mu'onai le skami judri befi la .ibupyp. goi ko'e cu nacmu .i ra'unai, ko'a dunli li cimunosorevopasomuvo .i ko'e cu cusku ju'u li remuxa ci'e le vonpoi be namcu ci'e li dau .ije lenu go'i cu frili morji .i bai lenu go'a zo pi'e cu drani .i mi'e .jez.

I have now changed it to pi'e.

.i bai mi puzi binxo zo pi'e

Despite the similar translation of Daniel, I am unrelated to lidaniyl.

ri'anai le mintu lerfykaibapli pe zoigy. Daniel gy. ku mi na ckini la lidaniyl.


Ask questions here.

ni'o datni cpedu vi

Any strange pets? Weasels, peacocks?

No, just Shetland Sheepdogs. I did have an anole once, though, but that was years ago.

xu do ponse le cizra danlu .i le mlatykai ratcu .a le blanu je kanlykai cipre xu se go'i

.i na di'u .i mi ponse le cetland. lange'u .iu .i mi pu ponse le resprnoli .iku'i puzu go'i


.i ga do'o ti po'u le canlu ku lenu datni cpedu na cu pilno gi mi te lojbo selcinmo pemci vi

If you all won't use this space to ask questions, then I will write Lojban attitudinal poetry here.

.a'o'e.iinaicai

.iusai.i'idai

.iinai.i'icai

.a'o'e.i'i.iinai

.a'o'e.e'u

.e'u.e'o

.e'o.a'o'e

.e'o.e'u

.a'ocai.ii

.e'o.e'u

.e'osai

.ui.ua.ue.ui

.ue.ui.uesai

.ui.ue.uisai

.o'asai.ui

.uo

No translations. Lojban poetry doesn't translate well; attitudinal poems certainly do not.

.i noda xe fanva .i le lojbo pemci na xamgu se fanva .i le selcinmo pemci go'i xi'i3 i'i pa

  • xi'i pa is ju'o.
  • zoigy. With 100 percent certainty gy. du zoigy. I am certain gy.
    • No, ju'o expresses a feeling, of certainty, while xi'i pa expresses that the bridi is completely true true. na go'i .i zo ju'o cmavo le selcinmo no'u le se birti ku .iku'i lo'u xi'i pa le'u cusku lenu se rairjetnu le bridi

Recent feelings on use of the jboste, wiki, and other fora: Having screwed up big time this morning (11/27/01), I will never again respond to anything I feel to be irrelevant to lojban and which do not grow out of relevant things. Nor will I respond to anything I feel is inflammatory. While I may strongly disagree with the posting of such things, or may just want the other guy's opinion not to be the only one heard, my right to free speech comes with the responsibility to use it well. I regret my comments of this morning, and while I cannot unsay them I can pledge never to do it again. I am sorry

.i mi cinmo de'e fi lenu pilno le jboste .e la .uikik. .e drata ve cusku

ni'o ri'a lenu mi maltavla de'i le cabde no'u renonopa pi'e reze pi'e fei ku ku mi ba spuda noda poi simlu leka na lojbo ku mi joi se spuda fi node poi lojbo .i mi go'i nodi poi simlu leka mabla ku mi .i mu'inai lenu mi pensi lenu ko'e goi da .e de .e di se cusku cu palci ku .a lenu mi djica lenu ko'i goi da poi se cusku mi ku se cusku ku ku lenu mi lenu cusku roda ku vlipa ku gasnu lenu mi nitcu xamgu pilno ri .i mi na gleki le mi se cusku pe le cabdei cerni .i ri'anai lenu mi ra na ka'e nalpurslecusku ku mi lenu na relroi cusku ku ka'e nupre .i .uucai


-mail me suggesting "Hey You! E-mail me!". No. I will not be upset if nobody does e-mail me.

skami mrilu mi stidi lu ko skami mrilu mi li'u .i na go'i .i mi na ba tolgei bai lenu noda mi ca'a skami mrilu