Lojban and Esperanto: Difference between revisions

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''bangrnesperanto'' or ''[[jbocre: spero|spero]]''


::{img src="img/wiki_up/V2P1.PNG" }::
**''le crino tartai cuntu''
**''mela [[jbocre: Zamenhof|Zamenxof]].''


Notable changes:
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* there is now a method for indicating stress, shown with a straight line just above the top point of the tall letters. Example below.
Since a great many Lojbanists studied [[jbocre: Esperanto|Esperanto]] before coming to [[jbocre: Lojbanistan|Lojbanistan]],
* the ineptly named "fricative stroke" is now a non-feature. The physical remnants of the style still remain, but no meaning need be attached to them.


* kerning is totally minimal. I might reinstate deliberate spacing because i think it kind of ruins the aesthetic.
there is little overt rivalry (except on the vexing [[jbocre: "Sixteen Rules" issue|'Sixteen Rules' issue]]...).
* S is now a new shape, a wavey thing. To make the pen strokes match the style, it looks very similar to .ybu, so I may change it. Z follows.


* C is a double-S, but seeing as a double-S is illegal in Lojban there shouldn't be any confusion. J follows.
The situation can be considered as a case of complementarity: [[jbocre: auxlang|International Auxilliary Language]] claims are renounced in order to focus on issues which
* M and N are now distinct characters - M retains the old shape, N is a new but not-entirely-dissimilar shape


* L and R are now distinct characters - both L and R are new shapes, not-entirely-dissimilar to each other, but very dissimilar from the old L, the "tall loop" character which could get confused for an I when handwriting.
simply don't exist in Esperanto.
* vowels are a little larger to make the text appear more uniform overall.


* the apostrophe-like shape has been reinstated as .y'y. Whether this is confusingly similar to the vocal flick shall be up to vote.
''And yet we have the STS discussion on the mailing list right now...''


Some examples, captain:
This seems to be primarily an artifact of the peculiar situation of Esperanto in America: the idealism of Esperanto, and the feel for a need for an IAL, do not have as much resonance in America as elsewhere, so there are proportionally many more people who would consider learning either Esperanto or Lojban ''only as a [[jbocre: conlang|conlang]]''. (Few outside the Anglo-Saxon world, I suspect (mi'e [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]]) would learn Esperanto only as a conlang.) For that reason, the two languages are being compared by some (e.g. prospective students asking for comparisons on the mailing list) rather more directly than others (e.g. Esperantists or ex-Esperantists like me) may have expected, in terms of non-IAL specific issues like unambiguity or euphony.


::{img src="img/wiki_up/V2P2.PNG" }::
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Stress notation, using some examples from L4B:
"On a Bitter Occasion" by [http://www.geocities.com/esperantolit/kalocsay/bio_nurteksta_angla.html Kalman Kalocsay] see: [http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/kalocsay] (in English and Lojban).


::{img src="img/wiki_up/V2P3.PNG" }::
*This poem, translated from Esperanto (original: [http://ftp.std.com/obi/Esperanto/texts/en-amara-horo.txt)] by [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick Nicholas]] waaaay back (obsolete Lojban alert) is a sober self-critique and reformulation of Esperantists' attitude to their own language.


Also requesting suggestions for the name of the orthography. Drop them into the chatroom or lojban-list: Re: Original Orthography Name
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DeleteOnReadingThis YouWhoYouAre (AndSoDoI) :-) : ''je'e nitcion.'' <nowiki>[</nowiki>be'edo'u mi la'a ba galfi tu'a le xe fanva mu'i leka tolcnino gi'e seja'ebo zmanei lenu na remei fa le krefu be le seltcidu]

Revision as of 17:02, 4 November 2013

bangrnesperanto or spero


Since a great many Lojbanists studied Esperanto before coming to Lojbanistan,

there is little overt rivalry (except on the vexing 'Sixteen Rules' issue...).

The situation can be considered as a case of complementarity: International Auxilliary Language claims are renounced in order to focus on issues which

simply don't exist in Esperanto.

And yet we have the STS discussion on the mailing list right now...

This seems to be primarily an artifact of the peculiar situation of Esperanto in America: the idealism of Esperanto, and the feel for a need for an IAL, do not have as much resonance in America as elsewhere, so there are proportionally many more people who would consider learning either Esperanto or Lojban only as a conlang. (Few outside the Anglo-Saxon world, I suspect (mi'e nitcion) would learn Esperanto only as a conlang.) For that reason, the two languages are being compared by some (e.g. prospective students asking for comparisons on the mailing list) rather more directly than others (e.g. Esperantists or ex-Esperantists like me) may have expected, in terms of non-IAL specific issues like unambiguity or euphony.


"On a Bitter Occasion" by Kalman Kalocsay see: [1] (in English and Lojban).

  • This poem, translated from Esperanto (original: [2] by Nick Nicholas waaaay back (obsolete Lojban alert) is a sober self-critique and reformulation of Esperantists' attitude to their own language.

DeleteOnReadingThis YouWhoYouAre (AndSoDoI) :-) : je'e nitcion. [be'edo'u mi la'a ba galfi tu'a le xe fanva mu'i leka tolcnino gi'e seja'ebo zmanei lenu na remei fa le krefu be le seltcidu]