https://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=File:622.sip&feed=atom&action=historyFile:622.sip - Revision history2024-03-28T15:34:43ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.38.4https://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=File:622.sip&diff=76708&oldid=prevGleki at 17:25, 4 November 20132013-11-04T17:25:42Z<p></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 17:25, 4 November 2013</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Form: ''xoi'' or some other unassigned monosyllable.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Purely an abbreviation for ''lo'e du'u'' or perhaps ''tu'o su'u''.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The rationale is that the longwindedness of things like ''jitfa fa lo'e du'u'' -- which is equivalent to ''na'' -- is a big disincentive to say things by means of selbri+sumti and instead fuels a demand for extra (experimental) cmavo, which then unnecessarily complicates the grammar.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* There is the question as to why anyone would ever say that instead of "na" or "naku" though. --mi'e [[jbocre: .djorden.|.djorden.]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* I'm not sure if you understood my point. Nobody would bother saying ''jitfa fa lo'e du'u'' when they can just ''na'', but for other possible selbri there is no cmavo that substitutes for ''broda fa lo'e du'u''. If ''broda fa lo'e du'u'' weren't such a mouthful, and such a tediously repetitive one at that, people might be happier to try to solve how-to-say-it problems by using selbri+sumti instead of always wanting cmavo to do the job. --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">One downside to this proposal is that it violates the baseline, in that (I think) it would require additions to the preparser. One way around it would be to assign ''xoi2'' to LU, but the downside to that is that LIhU is unelidable (isn't it?), so not such a saving of syllables.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* li'u is elidable but only at the end of the text. So that probably wouldn't work. I think either a new selma'o or a preprocessing step is needed for this to work. --mi'e [[jbocre: .djorden.|.djorden.]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* mi tugni mi'e [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw-live.lojban.org/index.php?title=File:622.sip&diff=66129&oldid=prevGleki at 17:20, 4 November 20132013-11-04T17:20:31Z<p></p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div><br />
Form: ''xoi'' or some other unassigned monosyllable.<br />
<br />
Purely an abbreviation for ''lo'e du'u'' or perhaps ''tu'o su'u''.<br />
<br />
The rationale is that the longwindedness of things like ''jitfa fa lo'e du'u'' -- which is equivalent to ''na'' -- is a big disincentive to say things by means of selbri+sumti and instead fuels a demand for extra (experimental) cmavo, which then unnecessarily complicates the grammar.<br />
<br />
* There is the question as to why anyone would ever say that instead of "na" or "naku" though. --mi'e [[jbocre: .djorden.|.djorden.]]<br />
* I'm not sure if you understood my point. Nobody would bother saying ''jitfa fa lo'e du'u'' when they can just ''na'', but for other possible selbri there is no cmavo that substitutes for ''broda fa lo'e du'u''. If ''broda fa lo'e du'u'' weren't such a mouthful, and such a tediously repetitive one at that, people might be happier to try to solve how-to-say-it problems by using selbri+sumti instead of always wanting cmavo to do the job. --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]<br />
<br />
One downside to this proposal is that it violates the baseline, in that (I think) it would require additions to the preparser. One way around it would be to assign ''xoi2'' to LU, but the downside to that is that LIhU is unelidable (isn't it?), so not such a saving of syllables.<br />
<br />
* li'u is elidable but only at the end of the text. So that probably wouldn't work. I think either a new selma'o or a preprocessing step is needed for this to work. --mi'e [[jbocre: .djorden.|.djorden.]]<br />
* mi tugni mi'e [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]<br />
<br />
--[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]<br />
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----</div>Gleki