CLL Beginner's Order: Difference between revisions

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==  Survey of Prior Discussions ==
The default order in which topics are presented in the CLL, ''the'' comprehensive Lojban manual/textbook/guide, seems a bit illogical, when first encountered by a beginner. This sparked, in #lojban, a discussion about a more beginner-friendly order, which resembles:


* '''bu'u'''
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-about.html Chapter 1] (Legal stuff, skippable)
** [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg19140.html elp!! learning Lojban] - mailing list thread, 2001
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-tour.html Chapter 2]  


** [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg05164.html i, vi, ca, bu'u] - mailing list thread, 2003
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-phonology.html Chapter 3]
* '''ne'a'''
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-morphology.html Chapter 4]


** [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg17587.html e: A set of questions] - mailing list thread, 2001
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-attitudinals.html Chapter 13.1-13.10]
** [http://www.lojban.org/tiki//tiki-view_forum_thread.php?topics_offset=1&forumId=1&comments_parentId=1656 iscussion] regarding [[BPFK Section: Distance]]
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-sumti.html Chapter 6] (beware of 6.12 (dotside), and 6.2-6.9 (xorlo))


* '''ne'i'''
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-anaphoric-cmavo.html Chapter 7]
** [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=go%20outside&preview=2 o outside] - Wiki, 2001
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-selbri.html Chapter 5.1-5.7]


** [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg02303.html everse of ne'i?] - mailing list thread, 2002
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-letterals.html Chapter 17.1-17.12]
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-structure.html Chapter 19] (beware of 19.13 (erasure))


It seems that in many cases where '''pa'o''' is used, '''mo'i pa'o''' would be more accurate. Is this a misinterpretation on my part, or should this use be explicitly invalidated?
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/section-evidentials.html Chapter 13.11-13.16]
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-abstractions.html Chapter 11]


==  Proposed Definitions And Examples ==
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-relative-clauses.html Chapter 8]
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-sumti-tcita.html Chapter 9]


===  Proposed Definition of ''bu'u'' ===
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-tenses.html Chapter 10]
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-connectives.html Chapter 14]


;'''bu'u''' (FAhA3): Coincident with. Indicates that something is here. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is coincident with, or in the same place as. The space equivalent of ca. See also: vi, va, vu, ne'i, ca.
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-negation.html Chapter 15]
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/section-me-selbri.html Chapter 5.10-5.20]


** Keywords: coincident. coinciding. at.
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-lujvo.html Chapter 12]
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-quantifiers.html Chapter 16] (Logical quantifiers, difficult material)


===  Examples of ''bu'u'' Usage ===
* [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/section-character-codes.html Chapter 17.13-17.20]
* ''Not at all necessary'' [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-mekso.html Chapter 18] (mekso - may be dropped from the language)


''cizra fa le nu la jimbraun mrobi'o bu'u le mi gugde''<br />
* ''Useful'' [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-catalogue.html Chapter 20] (selma'o liste)
* ''Not for the eyes of all'' [https://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-section-chunks/chapter-grammars.html Chapter 21] (Formal grammars)


It is strange that Jim Brown died in my country.
Points containing the mention ''beware'' or ''difficult'' should be read with a grain of salt; investing some time on [[Lojban IRC|Lojban's IRC]] will certainly clear things up, not to mention that Lojbanist irci give lessons in #ckule and (especially in the beginning to work on pronunciation) by means of Mumble, Ventrilo and Skype.
 
''i mi pu surla ze'a loi djedi bu'u le nurma''<br />
 
I was relaxing for some days in the countryside.
 
===  Proposed Definition of ''ne'a'' ===
 
;'''ne'a''' (FAhA3): Indicates that something is adjacent. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is next to.
 
** Keywords: adjacent. next to. approximating.
 
===  Examples of ''ne'a'' Usage ===
 
''to'o le mi tcaci stuzi pe ne'a le canko mi viska le nu so'o te barja cu suksa cliva''<br />
 
From my regular place next to the window, I saw many bar patrons suddenly leave.
 
===  Proposed Definition of ''ne'i'' ===
 
;'''ne'i''' (FAhA3): Indicates that something is within. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is inside.
 
** Keywords: within. inside. in.
 
===  Examples of ''ne'i'' Usage ===
 
''le cinki ne'i cpare le rinci tubnu''<br />
 
Within, the insect climbed the gutter.
 
===  Proposed Definition of ''pa'o'' ===
 
;'''pa'o''' (FAhA3): Intersecting. Indicates that something is transverse. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is intersects.  See also:
 
** Keywords: intersecting. transverse. transfixing. passing through.
 
===  Examples of ''pa'o'' Usage ===
 
''ni'o le prije ca lo cabvanci cu xruti lo purdi pe le mivyka'a gi'e lebna lo balre pa'o lo canko be lo kumfa gi'e ba bo lebna lo cifnu noi zvati lo ckana pe lo verba kumfa'' ([http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=le+saske+smani&amp;bl he Scientific Ape by Robert Louis Stevenson, tr. Jorge Llambías])<br />
 
That same afternoon, the doctor returned to the vivisectionist's garden, purloined one of his razors through the dressing room window, and on a second trip, removed his baby from the nursery basinette.
 
''i lo go'i pu se catra lo dikca be ri'a lo ratcu poi pu ba'o batci pa'o loi skori poi bevri lo dikca lo vo'a jirku'a'' ([http://laxmahispajispaji.blogspot.com/2006/03/lo-nuzba-zou-lo-ratcu-due-mei-cu-jai.html])<br />
 
It was killed by the electric charge caused by a rat that had bit through the cord that carried the electric charge to it.
 
''.i mi sutra joiku'i.o'a banli cadzu pa'o la'ele cravro noi tilju je jadycau'' ([http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/ckafybarja1 kafybarja, Nick Nicholas])<br />
 
I swiftly but grandly walked through The Front Door, Which Is Heavy And Plain.
 
''i lu ai mi noroi za'ure'u klama ba'e tu sei la alis ca le nu pluta sisku pa'o le ricmei cu cusku'' ([http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/alice/alice_7.html lice])<br />
 
'At any rate I'll never go ''there'' again!' said Alice as she picked her way through the wood.
 
===  Proposed Definition of ''re'o'' ===
 
;'''re'o''' (FAhA3): Adjacent to. Indicates that something is adjacent, touching or contacting. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is adjacent to, touching or contacting.  See also: te'e.
 
** Keywords: adjacent, abutting.
 
===  Examples of ''re'o'' Usage ===
 
''.i lo tanxe porsi cu muvdu re'o mi''<br />
 
A succession of boxes moves adjacent to me.
 
===  Proposed Definition of ''te'e'' ===
 
;'''te'e''' (FAhA3): Bordering. Indicates that something is at an edge, boundary or border. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is at an edge, boundary or border of. See also: re'o.
 
** Keywords: bordering. edging.
 
===  Examples of ''te'e'' Usage ===
 
''mi pu zu ze'i mo'i te'e cadzu''<br />
 
A long time ago in the past, I walked for a short time along the edge.
 
==  Notes ==
 
"into" is removed as a keyword from "ne'i" because "into" signifies motion.
 
==  Impact ==

Latest revision as of 14:51, 11 June 2018

The default order in which topics are presented in the CLL, the comprehensive Lojban manual/textbook/guide, seems a bit illogical, when first encountered by a beginner. This sparked, in #lojban, a discussion about a more beginner-friendly order, which resembles:

Points containing the mention beware or difficult should be read with a grain of salt; investing some time on Lojban's IRC will certainly clear things up, not to mention that Lojbanist irci give lessons in #ckule and (especially in the beginning to work on pronunciation) by means of Mumble, Ventrilo and Skype.