BPFK Section: The Problem With comma: Difference between revisions

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The CLL's comments on comma break audio-visual isomorphism.  Chapter 3, section 3:
The [[CLL]]'s comments on comma break audio-visual isomorphism.  Chapter 3, section 3:
{{quotation|The comma is used to indicate a syllable break within a word, generally one that is not obvious to the reader. Such a comma is written to separate syllables, but indicates that there must be no pause between them, in contrast to the period. Between two vowels, a comma indicates that some type of glide may be necessary to avoid a pause that would split the two syllables into separate words. It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA <nowiki>[h]</nowiki>) sound in pronouncing a comma. However, a comma cannot be pronounced as a pause or glottal stop between the two letters separated by the comma, because that pronunciation would split the word into two words.


:The comma is used to indicate a syllable break within a word, generally one that is not obvious to the reader. Such a comma is written to separate syllables, but indicates that there must be no pause between them, in contrast to the period. Between two vowels, a comma indicates that some type of glide may be necessary to avoid a pause that would split the two syllables into separate words. It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [[h|h]]) sound in pronouncing a comma. However, a comma cannot be pronounced as a pause or glottal stop between the two letters separated by the comma, because that pronunciation would split the word into two words.
Otherwise, a comma is usually only used to clarify the presence of syllabic '''l''', '''m''', '''n''', or '''r''' (discussed later). Commas are never required: no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma.|[[CLL]], Chapter 3, section 3}}
:Otherwise, a comma is usually only used to clarify the presence of syllabic ``l'', ``m'', ``n'', or ``r'' (discussed later). Commas are never required: no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma.


If this is true, then {.a,i} and {.ai} are the same word ("no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma") but {.a,i} can be pronounced like {.a'i} ("It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [[h|h]]) sound in pronouncing a comma").
*[[la camgusmis]]:
**If this is true, then {.a,i} and {.ai} are the same word ("no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma") but {.a,i} can be pronounced like {.a'i} ("It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA <nowiki>[h]</nowiki>) sound in pronouncing a comma").
**Both of this things cannot be true unless we restrict where , can go.
***[[.aionys.]]:
****My suggestion is to do away with either one or both of ''"no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma"''' and '''"It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA <nowiki>[h]</nowiki>) sound in pronouncing a comma"'', preferably the former, because in my mind "ah EE" ('''.a,i''') is not the same as "I" ('''.ai'''), but "ah EE" ('''.a,i''') and "ahEE" ('''.a'i''') are.
***[[cowan]]:
****My view is the opposite: that pronouncing , as ' is bogus and shouldn't be allowed.
***[[User:PlasticRaven|Plastic Raven]]:
****I prefer '''<nowiki>'</nowiki>'''s to ''','''s anyway, and it seems un-Lojbanically superfluous to have both characters with such similar usages. People can use them if they want, but I hope, doesn't become the standard.


Both of this things cannot be true unless we restrict where , can go.
{{quotation|A Lojban word has <u>one</u> syllable for each of its vowels, <u>diphthongs</u>, and syllabic consonants|[[CLL]] 3.9}}
*[[la tengo]]:
**The word '''ai''' has one syllable with a diphthong in its core. Therefore it is illegal to insert comma in it.


--[[camgusmis]]
[[Category:BPFK Section]]
 
* My suggestion is to do away with either one or both of '''"no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma"''' and '''"It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [[h|h]]) sound in pronouncing a comma"''', preferably the former, because in my mind "ah EE" {.a,i} is not the same as "I" {.ai}, but "ah EE" {.a,i} and "ahEE" {.a'i} are. --[[.aionys.]]
 
My view is the opposite: that pronouncing , as ' is bogus and shouldn't be allowed.  --[[cowan]]
 
I prefer 's to ,s anyway, and it seems un-Lojbanically superfluous to have both characters with such similar usages. People can use them if they want, but I hope , doesn't become the standard. --[[User:PlasticRaven|Plastic Raven]]
 
CLL 3.9:
 
:A Lojban word has '''one''' syllable for each of its vowels, '''diphthongs''', and syllabic consonants <...>
 
The word {ai} has one syllable with a diphthong in its core. Therefore it is illegal to insert comma in it. --[[tengo]]

Latest revision as of 06:47, 11 June 2015

The CLL's comments on comma break audio-visual isomorphism. Chapter 3, section 3:

The comma is used to indicate a syllable break within a word, generally one that is not obvious to the reader. Such a comma is written to separate syllables, but indicates that there must be no pause between them, in contrast to the period. Between two vowels, a comma indicates that some type of glide may be necessary to avoid a pause that would split the two syllables into separate words. It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [h]) sound in pronouncing a comma. However, a comma cannot be pronounced as a pause or glottal stop between the two letters separated by the comma, because that pronunciation would split the word into two words.

Otherwise, a comma is usually only used to clarify the presence of syllabic l, m, n, or r (discussed later). Commas are never required: no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma.

CLL, Chapter 3, section 3

  • la camgusmis:
    • If this is true, then {.a,i} and {.ai} are the same word ("no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma") but {.a,i} can be pronounced like {.a'i} ("It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [h]) sound in pronouncing a comma").
    • Both of this things cannot be true unless we restrict where , can go.
      • .aionys.:
        • My suggestion is to do away with either one or both of "no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma" and "It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [h]) sound in pronouncing a comma", preferably the former, because in my mind "ah EE" (.a,i) is not the same as "I" (.ai), but "ah EE" (.a,i) and "ahEE" (.a'i) are.
      • cowan:
        • My view is the opposite: that pronouncing , as ' is bogus and shouldn't be allowed.
      • Plastic Raven:
        • I prefer 's to ,s anyway, and it seems un-Lojbanically superfluous to have both characters with such similar usages. People can use them if they want, but I hope, doesn't become the standard.

A Lojban word has one syllable for each of its vowels, diphthongs, and syllabic consonants

CLL 3.9

  • la tengo:
    • The word ai has one syllable with a diphthong in its core. Therefore it is illegal to insert comma in it.