BPFK Section: The Problem With comma: Difference between revisions
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The CLL's comments on comma break audio-visual isomorphism. Chapter 3, section 3: | The [[CLL]]'s comments on comma break audio-visual isomorphism. Chapter 3, section 3: | ||
{{quotation|The comma is used to indicate a syllable break within a word, generally one that is not obvious to the reader. Such a comma is written to separate syllables, but indicates that there must be no pause between them, in contrast to the period. Between two vowels, a comma indicates that some type of glide may be necessary to avoid a pause that would split the two syllables into separate words. It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA <nowiki>[h]</nowiki>) sound in pronouncing a comma. However, a comma cannot be pronounced as a pause or glottal stop between the two letters separated by the comma, because that pronunciation would split the word into two words. | |||
Otherwise, a comma is usually only used to clarify the presence of syllabic '''l''', '''m''', '''n''', or '''r''' (discussed later). Commas are never required: no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma.|[[CLL]], Chapter 3, section 3}} | |||
If this is true, then {.a,i} and {.ai} are the same word ("no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma") but {.a,i} can be pronounced like {.a'i} ("It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [[ | *[[la camgusmis]]: | ||
**If this is true, then {.a,i} and {.ai} are the same word ("no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma") but {.a,i} can be pronounced like {.a'i} ("It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA <nowiki>[h]</nowiki>) sound in pronouncing a comma"). | |||
**Both of this things cannot be true unless we restrict where , can go. | |||
***[[.aionys.]]: | |||
****My suggestion is to do away with either one or both of ''"no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma"''' and '''"It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA <nowiki>[h]</nowiki>) sound in pronouncing a comma"'', preferably the former, because in my mind "ah EE" ('''.a,i''') is not the same as "I" ('''.ai'''), but "ah EE" ('''.a,i''') and "ahEE" ('''.a'i''') are. | |||
***[[cowan]]: | |||
****My view is the opposite: that pronouncing , as ' is bogus and shouldn't be allowed. | |||
***[[User:PlasticRaven|Plastic Raven]]: | |||
****I prefer '''<nowiki>'</nowiki>'''s to ''','''s anyway, and it seems un-Lojbanically superfluous to have both characters with such similar usages. People can use them if they want, but I hope, doesn't become the standard. | |||
{{quotation|A Lojban word has <u>one</u> syllable for each of its vowels, <u>diphthongs</u>, and syllabic consonants|[[CLL]] 3.9}} | |||
*[[la tengo]]: | |||
**The word '''ai''' has one syllable with a diphthong in its core. Therefore it is illegal to insert comma in it. | |||
[[Category:BPFK Section]] | |||
Latest revision as of 06:47, 11 June 2015
The CLL's comments on comma break audio-visual isomorphism. Chapter 3, section 3:
The comma is used to indicate a syllable break within a word, generally one that is not obvious to the reader. Such a comma is written to separate syllables, but indicates that there must be no pause between them, in contrast to the period. Between two vowels, a comma indicates that some type of glide may be necessary to avoid a pause that would split the two syllables into separate words. It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [h]) sound in pronouncing a comma. However, a comma cannot be pronounced as a pause or glottal stop between the two letters separated by the comma, because that pronunciation would split the word into two words.
Otherwise, a comma is usually only used to clarify the presence of syllabic l, m, n, or r (discussed later). Commas are never required: no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma.
— CLL, Chapter 3, section 3
- la camgusmis:
- If this is true, then {.a,i} and {.ai} are the same word ("no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma") but {.a,i} can be pronounced like {.a'i} ("It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [h]) sound in pronouncing a comma").
- Both of this things cannot be true unless we restrict where , can go.
- .aionys.:
- My suggestion is to do away with either one or both of "no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma" and "It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [h]) sound in pronouncing a comma", preferably the former, because in my mind "ah EE" (.a,i) is not the same as "I" (.ai), but "ah EE" (.a,i) and "ahEE" (.a'i) are.
- cowan:
- My view is the opposite: that pronouncing , as ' is bogus and shouldn't be allowed.
- Plastic Raven:
- I prefer 's to ,s anyway, and it seems un-Lojbanically superfluous to have both characters with such similar usages. People can use them if they want, but I hope, doesn't become the standard.
- .aionys.:
A Lojban word has one syllable for each of its vowels, diphthongs, and syllabic consonants
— CLL 3.9
- la tengo:
- The word ai has one syllable with a diphthong in its core. Therefore it is illegal to insert comma in it.