BPFK Section: The Problem With comma: Difference between revisions

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The [[CLL]]'s comments on comma break audio-visual isomorphism.  Chapter 3, section 3:
{{quotation|The comma is used to indicate a syllable break within a word, generally one that is not obvious to the reader. Such a comma is written to separate syllables, but indicates that there must be no pause between them, in contrast to the period. Between two vowels, a comma indicates that some type of glide may be necessary to avoid a pause that would split the two syllables into separate words. It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA <nowiki>[h]</nowiki>) sound in pronouncing a comma. However, a comma cannot be pronounced as a pause or glottal stop between the two letters separated by the comma, because that pronunciation would split the word into two words.


Otherwise, a comma is usually only used to clarify the presence of syllabic '''l''', '''m''', '''n''', or '''r''' (discussed later). Commas are never required: no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma.|[[CLL]], Chapter 3, section 3}}


''jijyjmi''
*[[la camgusmis]]:
**If this is true, then {.a,i} and {.ai} are the same word ("no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma") but {.a,i} can be pronounced like {.a'i} ("It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA <nowiki>[h]</nowiki>) sound in pronouncing a comma").
**Both of this things cannot be true unless we restrict where , can go.
***[[.aionys.]]:
****My suggestion is to do away with either one or both of ''"no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma"''' and '''"It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA <nowiki>[h]</nowiki>) sound in pronouncing a comma"'', preferably the former, because in my mind "ah EE" ('''.a,i''') is not the same as "I" ('''.ai'''), but "ah EE" ('''.a,i''') and "ahEE" ('''.a'i''') are.
***[[cowan]]:
****My view is the opposite: that pronouncing , as ' is bogus and shouldn't be allowed.
***[[User:PlasticRaven|Plastic Raven]]:
****I prefer '''<nowiki>'</nowiki>'''s to ''','''s anyway, and it seems un-Lojbanically superfluous to have both characters with such similar usages. People can use them if they want, but I hope, doesn't become the standard.


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{{quotation|A Lojban word has <u>one</u> syllable for each of its vowels, <u>diphthongs</u>, and syllabic consonants|[[CLL]] 3.9}}
*[[la tengo]]:
**The word '''ai''' has one syllable with a diphthong in its core. Therefore it is illegal to insert comma in it.


It's a moot question on whether thinking happens "in" a language or not; and what happens after you've used a second language long enough that you subvocalize in that language at times rather than in your first language. The real question is: Do you Bellyfeel Lojban?
[[Category:BPFK Section]]
 
Lojban ''[[jbocre: gismu|gismu]]'' are not nouns or verbs, but networks of relations. What does that mean? Like a constellation in the sky, a shape is drawn around phenomena; dots are connected; the whole world is full of such gestalts. Some of them are simple and have only one referent, some have as many as five (do you know which ones?). Whenever you think of one, do the others automatically come to mind? What kind of mental gestalt does a ''[http://66.111.43.200/~jkominek/nuzban/wiki/index.php?jugytai%20jbopemci roda brode brodi]'' create in your mind?
 
''G^3! A three-space of possibilities! What are the dot and cross of two bridi, that are vectors in this space?''
 
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See [[jbocre: Jindyworobaks|Jindyworobaks]] for a curiously parallel project, once upon a time.
 
See [http://www.lojban.org/wiki/index.php/My%20Version%20of%20%22The%20Book%22 here] for a first-person account.

Latest revision as of 06:47, 11 June 2015

The CLL's comments on comma break audio-visual isomorphism. Chapter 3, section 3:

The comma is used to indicate a syllable break within a word, generally one that is not obvious to the reader. Such a comma is written to separate syllables, but indicates that there must be no pause between them, in contrast to the period. Between two vowels, a comma indicates that some type of glide may be necessary to avoid a pause that would split the two syllables into separate words. It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [h]) sound in pronouncing a comma. However, a comma cannot be pronounced as a pause or glottal stop between the two letters separated by the comma, because that pronunciation would split the word into two words.

Otherwise, a comma is usually only used to clarify the presence of syllabic l, m, n, or r (discussed later). Commas are never required: no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma.

CLL, Chapter 3, section 3

  • la camgusmis:
    • If this is true, then {.a,i} and {.ai} are the same word ("no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma") but {.a,i} can be pronounced like {.a'i} ("It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [h]) sound in pronouncing a comma").
    • Both of this things cannot be true unless we restrict where , can go.
      • .aionys.:
        • My suggestion is to do away with either one or both of "no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma" and "It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [h]) sound in pronouncing a comma", preferably the former, because in my mind "ah EE" (.a,i) is not the same as "I" (.ai), but "ah EE" (.a,i) and "ahEE" (.a'i) are.
      • cowan:
        • My view is the opposite: that pronouncing , as ' is bogus and shouldn't be allowed.
      • Plastic Raven:
        • I prefer 's to ,s anyway, and it seems un-Lojbanically superfluous to have both characters with such similar usages. People can use them if they want, but I hope, doesn't become the standard.

A Lojban word has one syllable for each of its vowels, diphthongs, and syllabic consonants

CLL 3.9

  • la tengo:
    • The word ai has one syllable with a diphthong in its core. Therefore it is illegal to insert comma in it.