BPFK Section: Contact Spatial: Difference between revisions

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{CODE(wrap="1]][[jbocre: 10:22|10:22]] <vensa> ma jdima lonu curmi doi tomoj
==  Survey of Prior Discussions ==
[[jbocre: 10:22|10:22]] <tomoj> is there a vague PA
 
[[jbocre: 10:22|10:22]] <selckiku> i don't mind "malgli", that's a fine way to say it, it just makes me wonder
* '''bu'u'''
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <vensa> selckiku: the bomb is about to go off :)
** [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg19140.html elp!! learning Lojban] - mailing list thread, 2001
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <vensa> tomoj: ji'i
 
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <selckiku> huh, a vague pa, that's a cool idea, there isn't is there??
** [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg05164.html i, vi, ca, bu'u] - mailing list thread, 2003
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <vensa> ji'i
* '''ne'a'''
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <tomoj> hmm
 
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <tomoj> the thing is, I don't even know the number
** [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg17587.html e: A set of questions] - mailing list thread, 2001
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <tomoj> nor whether it's typical
** [http://www.lojban.org/tiki//tiki-view_forum_thread.php?topics_offset=1&amp;forumId=1&amp;comments_parentId=1656 iscussion] regarding [[BPFK Section: Distance]]
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <vensa> you can use {za'u}
 
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <tomoj> I just know it's in the hundreds
* '''ne'i'''
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <vensa> or {su'o}
** [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=go%20outside&amp;preview=2 o outside] - Wiki, 2001
[[jbocre: 10:23|10:23]] <selckiku> "ji'i" makes any PA a little vaguer, you can't use it on its own can you?
 
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <vensa> so {za'u panono}
** [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg02303.html everse of ne'i?] - mailing list thread, 2002
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <tomoj> so I was thinking "XX no no"
 
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <vensa> selckiku: y not?
It seems that in many cases where '''pa'o''' is used, '''mo'i pa'o''' would be more accurate. Is this a misinterpretation on my part, or should this use be explicitly invalidated?
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <selckiku> i dunno, i'd just never seen it
 
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <tomoj> well..
==  Proposed Definitions And Examples ==
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <selckiku> what selma'o is zo ji'i anyway
 
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <selckiku> zo ji'i cmavo ma
===  Proposed Definition of ''bu'u'' ===
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <tomoj> 10000 is {za'u pa no no}, isn't it?
 
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <tomoj> valsi: ji'i
;'''bu'u''' (FAhA3): Coincident with. Indicates that something is here. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is coincident with, or in the same place as. The space equivalent of ca. See also: vi, va, vu, ne'i, ca.
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <valsi> ji'i = digit/number: approximately (default the typical value in this context) (number).
 
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <vensa> tomoj: you can try {xo paunai no no}
** Keywords: coincident. coinciding. at.
[[jbocre: 10:24|10:24]] <tomoj> it's PA
 
[[jbocre: 10:25|10:25]] <selckiku> ok then, i guess {li ji'i} is a pretty vague number then
===  Examples of ''bu'u'' Usage ===
[[jbocre: 10:26|10:26]] <vensa> selckiku: is {za'u panono} = "more than one hunderd" or "10000"?
 
[[jbocre: 10:26|10:26]] <vensa> valsi za'u
''cizra fa le nu la jimbraun mrobi'o bu'u le mi gugde''<br />
[[jbocre: 10:26|10:26]] <valsi> za'u = digit/number: greater than.
 
[[jbocre: 10:26|10:26]] <selckiku> 10000 is more than 100, sure
It is strange that Jim Brown died in my country.
[[jbocre: 10:27|10:27]] <vensa> yeah but what is the meaning of the lojban?
 
[[jbocre: 10:27|10:27]] <vensa> oh wait
''i mi pu surla ze'a loi djedi bu'u le nurma''<br />
[[jbocre: 10:27|10:27]] <vensa> nm.
 
[[jbocre: 10:27|10:27]] <vensa> tomoj wasnt arguing with me
I was relaxing for some days in the countryside.
[[jbocre: 10:27|10:27]] == bortzmeyer [[jbocre: ~bortzmeye@batilda.nic.fr|~bortzmeye@batilda.nic.fr]] has quit [[jbocre: Ping timeout: 252 seconds|Ping timeout: 252 seconds]]
 
[[jbocre: 10:27|10:27]] <vensa> I was including "10000" as a referent of {za'u panono}
===  Proposed Definition of ''ne'a'' ===
[[jbocre: 10:27|10:27]] <selckiku> it's a somewhat unusual meaning of za'upanono but it depends on the context
 
[[jbocre: 10:28|10:28]] <tomoj> I want X00 where X is a single digit 1-9
;'''ne'a''' (FAhA3): Indicates that something is adjacent. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is next to.
[[jbocre: 10:28|10:28]] <vensa> doi tomoj no'i xu do kakne lonu se pendo lo mlatu poi bartu
 
[[jbocre: 10:28|10:28]] <vensa> tomoj: then you need a regex :P
** Keywords: adjacent. next to. approximating.
[[jbocre: 10:28|10:28]]  * ctino is going to try connecting with a real IRC client and will return soon
 
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <vensa> yay! citno
===  Examples of ''ne'a'' Usage ===
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <vensa> *Ctino
 
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] == ctino [[jbocre: 1806f0d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.6.240.210|1806f0d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.6.240.210]] has quit [[jbocre: | ]]
''to'o le mi tcaci stuzi pe ne'a le canko mi viska le nu so'o te barja cu suksa cliva''<br />
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <tomoj> hmm, is there enough cmavo space open to translate regex into lojban? :)
 
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <vensa> hah
From my regular place next to the window, I saw many bar patrons suddenly leave.
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <vensa> valsi bo'o
 
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <valsi> boxfo = x1 is a sheet/foil/blanket [[jbocre: 2-dimensional shape/form flexible in 3 dimensions|2-dimensional shape/form flexible in 3 dimensions]] of material x2.
===  Proposed Definition of ''ne'i'' ===
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <vensa> valsi no'o
 
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <valsi> no'o = digit/number: typical/average value.
;'''ne'i''' (FAhA3): Indicates that something is within. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is inside.
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <selckiku> the cmavo space is rather busy, really
 
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] == donri [[jbocre: ~dag@unaffiliated/dagodenhall|~dag@unaffiliated/dagodenhall]] has joined #lojban
** Keywords: within. inside. in.
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] == gunkamanti [[jbocre: ~sarefo@213.83.32.130|~sarefo@213.83.32.130]] has joined #lojban
 
[[jbocre: 10:29|10:29]] <vensa> how about {no'o no no}?
===  Examples of ''ne'i'' Usage ===
[[jbocre: 10:30|10:30]] <vensa> if anything, it sounds hillarious{CODE}
 
''le cinki ne'i cpare le rinci tubnu''<br />
 
Within, the insect climbed the gutter.
 
===  Proposed Definition of ''pa'o'' ===
 
;'''pa'o''' (FAhA3): Intersecting. Indicates that something is transverse. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is intersects.  See also:
 
** Keywords: intersecting. transverse. transfixing. passing through.
 
===  Examples of ''pa'o'' Usage ===
 
''ni'o le prije ca lo cabvanci cu xruti lo purdi pe le mivyka'a gi'e lebna lo balre pa'o lo canko be lo kumfa gi'e ba bo lebna lo cifnu noi zvati lo ckana pe lo verba kumfa'' ([http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=le+saske+smani&amp;bl he Scientific Ape by Robert Louis Stevenson, tr. Jorge Llambías])<br />
 
That same afternoon, the doctor returned to the vivisectionist's garden, purloined one of his razors through the dressing room window, and on a second trip, removed his baby from the nursery basinette.
 
''i lo go'i pu se catra lo dikca be ri'a lo ratcu poi pu ba'o batci pa'o loi skori poi bevri lo dikca lo vo'a jirku'a'' ([http://laxmahispajispaji.blogspot.com/2006/03/lo-nuzba-zou-lo-ratcu-due-mei-cu-jai.html])<br />
 
It was killed by the electric charge caused by a rat that had bit through the cord that carried the electric charge to it.
 
''.i mi sutra joiku'i.o'a banli cadzu pa'o la'ele cravro noi tilju je jadycau'' ([http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/ckafybarja1 kafybarja, Nick Nicholas])<br />
 
I swiftly but grandly walked through The Front Door, Which Is Heavy And Plain.
 
''i lu ai mi noroi za'ure'u klama ba'e tu sei la alis ca le nu pluta sisku pa'o le ricmei cu cusku'' ([http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/alice/alice_7.html lice])<br />
 
'At any rate I'll never go ''there'' again!' said Alice as she picked her way through the wood.
 
===  Proposed Definition of ''re'o'' ===
 
;'''re'o''' (FAhA3): Adjacent to. Indicates that something is adjacent, touching or contacting. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is adjacent to, touching or contacting.  See also: te'e.
 
** Keywords: adjacent, abutting.
 
===  Examples of ''re'o'' Usage ===
 
''.i lo tanxe porsi cu muvdu re'o mi''<br />
 
A succession of boxes moves adjacent to me.
 
===  Proposed Definition of ''te'e'' ===
 
;'''te'e''' (FAhA3): Bordering. Indicates that something is at an edge, boundary or border. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is at an edge, boundary or border of. See also: re'o.
 
** Keywords: bordering. edging.
 
===  Examples of ''te'e'' Usage ===
 
''mi pu zu ze'i mo'i te'e cadzu''<br />
 
A long time ago in the past, I walked for a short time along the edge.
 
==  Notes ==
 
"into" is removed as a keyword from "ne'i" because "into" signifies motion.
 
==  Impact ==

Revision as of 16:44, 4 November 2013

Survey of Prior Discussions

It seems that in many cases where pa'o is used, mo'i pa'o would be more accurate. Is this a misinterpretation on my part, or should this use be explicitly invalidated?

Proposed Definitions And Examples

Proposed Definition of bu'u

bu'u (FAhA3)
Coincident with. Indicates that something is here. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is coincident with, or in the same place as. The space equivalent of ca. See also: vi, va, vu, ne'i, ca.
    • Keywords: coincident. coinciding. at.

Examples of bu'u Usage

cizra fa le nu la jimbraun mrobi'o bu'u le mi gugde

It is strange that Jim Brown died in my country.

i mi pu surla ze'a loi djedi bu'u le nurma

I was relaxing for some days in the countryside.

Proposed Definition of ne'a

ne'a (FAhA3)
Indicates that something is adjacent. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is next to.
    • Keywords: adjacent. next to. approximating.

Examples of ne'a Usage

to'o le mi tcaci stuzi pe ne'a le canko mi viska le nu so'o te barja cu suksa cliva

From my regular place next to the window, I saw many bar patrons suddenly leave.

Proposed Definition of ne'i

ne'i (FAhA3)
Indicates that something is within. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is inside.
    • Keywords: within. inside. in.

Examples of ne'i Usage

le cinki ne'i cpare le rinci tubnu

Within, the insect climbed the gutter.

Proposed Definition of pa'o

pa'o (FAhA3)
Intersecting. Indicates that something is transverse. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is intersects. See also:
    • Keywords: intersecting. transverse. transfixing. passing through.

Examples of pa'o Usage

ni'o le prije ca lo cabvanci cu xruti lo purdi pe le mivyka'a gi'e lebna lo balre pa'o lo canko be lo kumfa gi'e ba bo lebna lo cifnu noi zvati lo ckana pe lo verba kumfa (he Scientific Ape by Robert Louis Stevenson, tr. Jorge Llambías)

That same afternoon, the doctor returned to the vivisectionist's garden, purloined one of his razors through the dressing room window, and on a second trip, removed his baby from the nursery basinette.

i lo go'i pu se catra lo dikca be ri'a lo ratcu poi pu ba'o batci pa'o loi skori poi bevri lo dikca lo vo'a jirku'a ([1])

It was killed by the electric charge caused by a rat that had bit through the cord that carried the electric charge to it.

.i mi sutra joiku'i.o'a banli cadzu pa'o la'ele cravro noi tilju je jadycau (kafybarja, Nick Nicholas)

I swiftly but grandly walked through The Front Door, Which Is Heavy And Plain.

i lu ai mi noroi za'ure'u klama ba'e tu sei la alis ca le nu pluta sisku pa'o le ricmei cu cusku (lice)

'At any rate I'll never go there again!' said Alice as she picked her way through the wood.

Proposed Definition of re'o

re'o (FAhA3)
Adjacent to. Indicates that something is adjacent, touching or contacting. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is adjacent to, touching or contacting. See also: te'e.
    • Keywords: adjacent, abutting.

Examples of re'o Usage

.i lo tanxe porsi cu muvdu re'o mi

A succession of boxes moves adjacent to me.

Proposed Definition of te'e

te'e (FAhA3)
Bordering. Indicates that something is at an edge, boundary or border. When tagging a sumti, the sumti indicates something which it is at an edge, boundary or border of. See also: re'o.
    • Keywords: bordering. edging.

Examples of te'e Usage

mi pu zu ze'i mo'i te'e cadzu

A long time ago in the past, I walked for a short time along the edge.

Notes

"into" is removed as a keyword from "ne'i" because "into" signifies motion.

Impact