discussion of kacma fi noda

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See also camera obscura.

  • phma:
    • That should be kacma fi zi'o; anything (such as a tree) which has nothing to record images on kacma fi noda.
      • jezrax:
        • kacma fi zi'o is good (I almost chose it); it means something like camera for which any recording medium is irrelevant, which is true for a camera obscura. kacma fi noda means something like camera which does not record on any medium, which I think is also good. I don't accept that lo'e tricu cu kacma fi noda. A gismu is not defined by its places only, but by its entire definition. Both kacma fi zi'o and kacma fi noda rely on the listener accepting that a camera obscura is just like a familiar photographic kacma except for an unusual treatment of the x3 place; I think both suggested unusual treatments work.
      • phma is right. A kacma be fi noda is not lo kacma, just as a dunda be noda is not lo dunda. So it doesn't make much sense to insist that a kacma be fi noda should still be something we consider a camera.
        • jezrax:
          • Reference, please.
            • xorxes:
              • Do you accept lo'e tricu na kacma fi da? It means exactly the same as lo'e tricu cu kacma fi noda.
                • la xod:
                  • What you choose to consider a "camera" is your own problem. pe'i la jezrax cu prije jimpe
                    • xorxes:
                      • Of course. When I say lo'e tricu cu kamca fi noda, I'm saying that a tree is not a camera.
      • phma:
        • Another way to say it is kacma fi lo nomei, which means that it is a camera but its recording medium is nothing. A camera with film kacma fi zi'o gi'enai kacma fi lo nomei.
          • xorxes:
            • Right. It is important to keep the meanings of noda and lo nomei appart. They're two significantly different "nothings".